Pump Requirments

[Bushwhacker]

I am Currently having a problem with fellow FF and Board members about the setup of our 2 new rigs, Several FF and a few board mebers belive that they should NOT be able to draft. There support for this is that, if someone drafts dirty water the pump and impellers will be damaged. I can agree if that a draft hose is thrown into a river bottom with no strainer on it.

The ones that support this new setup are some of the more undertrained members, and the board is viewing it as a way to save money to a certain extent.

Now my questions can some one show the Requirments for Red-carding our trucks, And tell me if this is legal to have no draft set-up's on our trucks?

My question is how are our we going to work with drop tanks and hydrants?

One more before I log off is Do Any of your brush rigs carry 300ft of 1 1/2 hose? And is that a requirment?

[BirkenVogt]

We don't draft very frequently at all but I would certainly consider it essential. If you have a pond right next to your fire and the hydrant is a 10 mile round trip you are going to feel mighty stupid and the fire might get worse than it could have been. The main thing is not to limit your options. Also if your town's water system is not working you still want to be able to fight fire.

As far as the hose compliment, that all depends on who certifies you....

Birken

[Dalmatian190]

Illegal, I don't know.

Unbelievable...yep. Mostly in the excuse given.

I suppose the only thing I can think of is the type of operations you do with them...if they're purely grass buggies used to directly chase down and apply water, maybe it's not a factor.

If you ever do "forestry" work where you setup to supply a hose line into the woods, or need to make a stand or wet down an area ahead of the fire it's real helpful.

A portable float pump might be a good compromise, plus it lets you get water out of suction hose reach.

And I say that as someone whose mini-pumper can't draft due to a design "hadn't thought of that..." whoopsie after the CAFS unit was bought and the body was built. Even after we bought a portable trash pump, ran into powers to be "Oh, can't carry that on the truck, that's for pumping basements!" ?!?!?!?!? So yeah, I run into bizarre theories too.

Every couple of years, find ourselves in the woods with a sheepish grin while waiting for another company to hookup their portable pump to refill our truck. "Yeah, we can't draft. No, we don't carry a portable pump..."

[sdff1520]

One more before I log off is Do Any of your brush rigs carry 300ft of 1 1/2 hose? And is that a requirment?

As was mentioned earlier it depends on who is "carding" you apparatus. Our minimum standard is 300' of 1 1/2". All of our type 6 engines carry 300' of 1 1/2" single jacket, 300' of 1" and 300' of 3/4" as a minimum.

IMO every apparatus should be able to draft. If there is a suitable source of water nearby, why pass it up? Set up a fill site and go to work! That said, it's a good idea to do some maintenance on the pump afterwards, backflush etc... but thats no reason to not use static sources that are in close proximity to the incident.

[devildog4]

Hose requirement? Depends on the "type" of wildland truck. Type 3 requires 800' 1" and 1,100' of 1 1/2", 120 GPM pump and 500 gllns water.

[BDVFD784]

There was a time when my Dept. could only fill our trucks by drafting out of the river off of a low water crossing.I hated it.I can't even count the number off times the pump had to be worked on not to mention it wasn't always easy to get a suction.We put a storage tank at our firehall because there was not a public water system.We also bought a floating pump.They are worth the money.One of our newer trucks is set up to draft but I don't let them carry the stuff to draft with.It depends alot on what you are doing with your truck.Most of the time it is hard to get to water at the type of brush fires we have so we use tankers,portable tanks and a floating pump.We never set up supply lines in the woods.We don't have forest around here.It doesn't hurt to set a truck up to draft though.I think you can get a floating foot valve.That would solve the problem of gravel in the pump.My vote would be for a floating pump.Good luck.

On the subject of 1 1/2 hose-one of my brush trucks doesn't carry any and one has 150 ft. pre-connect.All of our trucks have 150 ft. of 1 in. red line.

[Bowbreaker]

Bushwhacker,

The federal standards (BLM) we are required to meet, in the agreement we have with the BIA and the State of South Dakota, an engine must be able to self fill from ground water sources. They do not care if you draft with your engine or carry a portable pump to draft with but you must be able to fill from almost any water supply.

There is also a hose requirement depending on the size of the engine. There is also a list of fitting and adapters required. Contact the agency you are entering into an agreement with for their requirements.

Brad

[cappy409]

Cappy409

Let your board members know that all apparatus mounted fire pumps are rated at 100% capacity at DRAFT. In order for your your trucks to have their required annual pump certifications they must be tested from Draft.

Pumping from dirty water should not be a main concern If you apparatus has strainers in place and the proper technique is used to flush the pump when finished drafting.

[BirkenVogt]

Let your board members know that all apparatus mounted fire pumps are rated at 100% capacity at DRAFT. In order for your your trucks to have their required annual pump certifications they must be tested from Draft.

That is not really true. Certification pump testing can be done from a hydrant with allowance made for the increased discharge pressure. But the water department may not appreciate you running 30,000 gallons of water down the gutter.

Birken

[wombat]

Drafting

Downunder in South East Australia drafting is fitted to all rural fire tankers. You can usually tell by the Southern Cross hand operated diaphram pump fitted at the back of the truck. Whether or not drafting actually works or not depends on how well the truck is maintained. Sometimes it can be quite a challenge getting the coupliongs to seal etc. A strainer is always fitted (well since one brigade managed to suck up some second WW2 ordinances whilst draining an old well several years ago. Having a mortor shell lodged inside the pump is not a good idea. ) A mesh Yabbee basket is fitted over the strainer to filter large material as well. The worst part of drafting is trying to get water out of a cement agitator truck which I have done several times. Most rural fire trucks carry auxilary portable pumps which can be dropped with a length of hose to protect a property.