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Private Firefighters Save Policy Holders Homes, Raise Concerns.

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  • #16
    In my Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ), I would work with these private contractors. Why?

    1) They have the same mission we do: Saving lives and property.

    A) I would rather have a private contractor team in a fire zone, rather than property owners staying around and using their garden hose to try and save their property. The team would have more training and protective equipment (nomex gear, etc.), than a civilian off the street. I have seen way too much panic at fires from civilians. I would trust a team over disorganized civilians off the street..

    B) I would rather be cooperative with them and have them work under my command, than ignore them and wonder what they are doing. I would get to know them, to know their capabilities (foam, personnel, etc.). I would also give them some ground rules, such as no back burning without AHJ command's permission. Also, permission, if they want to tap into the fire hydrants. If they intend to draft from a pond or bring in their own water tender, that would be acceptable.

    C) The more they save, it saves the infrastructure in my AHJ. I lose tax base, when it goes up in smoke. I have been in communities after a disaster. Lots of finger pointing. If I can point out that extra resources were brought in, it can help quell the "blame game". "We had these extra resources here, but the fuel was dry and the wind speed was excessive, so we did what we could do as humanely possible".

    Anyway, you can decide if you welcome them into your AHJ. To me they can be an asset, if you set up some ground rules with them ahead of time.
    Last edited by FIRE117; 06-06-2018, 05:32 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tree68 View Post

      If it's by prior agreement, not a problem. My concern would be them showing up unbidden (ie, a "sales call") with the cachet of authority.
      Yeah, I would be very concerned if they were just trolling the streets looking for customers, but these are pre-approved contracts

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      • #18
        Originally posted by drparasite View Post
        ummm, you're the one who said it's not different than the homeowner staying behind. Here, let me refresh your memory:
        Hope that clears up that issue.ummm, none of those agencies are ENFORCEMENT agencies. they are agencies that set standards, but it's typically OSHA and the AHJ that can be held liable or fine individuals for using individuals who lack training, set forth by the cert agencies you listed (and NFPA is only a recommendation, not a law).so as an AHIMT member, you encourage people to freelance, think it's acceptable that random people do what they want on a scene without being part of the AHJ's actual response, and are ok with a complete lack of accountability of who is operating within the confines on your incident? just wanted to make sure we were all on the same pagethey are one company... I am starting ABC wildfire to do the same. what's your point? we are both contractors?

        If they wanted to be part of the solution, they could register with Emergency Management and be listed as a private contractor who could be called by the IC if needed.

        But hey, you're the IMT guy, if you are ok with private contracts freelancing on a wildfire scene and doing their own thing, ignoring or not communicating with the command post, and having questionable training standards, well, I guess I'll had to say you work a scene differently than I would.
        Oh, Cupcake. First off, as mentioned, the leadership at the scenes is stating that they are coordinating. Upper leadership. Not a crew boss, or engine boss, but the IC's and people who manage the situations. You have the voice of a crew boss stating they do not coordinate. They are not aware of everything going on around them.

        Secondly, they already have a customer, why be a private contractor to the EMA, (Even though the companies providing the services often are, with more crews)

        Third, they fill a need. As others have posted, why not use them to save our taxpayers property?

        Fourth, training. I am well aware that NFPA is not a law - although some states have adopted NFPA into their laws. But it is a standard, and in most cases the standard that you will be judged by. Compliance with that standard signifies a certain level of equipment, training, and resources. So does compliance with the other agencies and standards I posted. They also have to comply with OSHA just like any other business, or workplace. How do you know that all the departments responding also comply with OSHA?

        Fifth, as an IMT member, yes I would want them to check in. And according to type 1 IMT teams from the federal government they do check in and coordinate. They do not check in with every task force, crew, engine, etc.

        You have never worked a major wildfire have you?

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        • #19
          apparently this issue in the headlines again..... Kim Kardashian?s Private Firefighters Expose America?s Fault Lines

          ?Rich people don?t get their own ?better? firefighters, or at least they aren?t supposed to.?

          https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ghting/575887/

          If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

          FF/EMT/DBP

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          • #20
            Well not much different than hiring a security guard/s ??

            Plus there are only so many city/ state/ fed firefighters to go around.


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            • #21
              "Starting ABC contractor" ? Really --Worked for a private contractor on a type 6 wildland engine ---Not only did we have to meet the same standards as an agency engine --in both training/quals for us --the engine had a pre season inspection --always an inspection when checking in , and most of all --the owner had to purchase workmans comp in multiple states ---many times on the fly --- we also did prescribed burning --his liability policy just for that was 50 grand a year --and was 8 years ago.
              ?

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