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US Army Officer Up For Court Martial

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  • #16
    Sadly yes, it does repeat. Here is something that was given to me by my grade 12 English teacher.... ooohhhh soo long ago. But it stuck with me and I actually carried the original copy in my wallet for many years - until it became illegible. **See Rule# 4:

    The Rules for being Human

    When you were born, you didn't come with an owner's manual; these guidelines make life work better.

    1. You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it, but it's the only thing you are sure to keep for the rest of your life.

    2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full-time informal school called "Life on Planet Earth". Every person or incident is the Universal Teacher.

    3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of experimentation. "Failures" are as much a part of the process as "success."

    4. A lesson is repeated until learned. It is presented to you in various forms until you learn it -- then you can go on to the next lesson.

    5. If you don't learn easy lessons, they get harder. External problems are a precise reflection of your internal state. When you clear inner obstructions, your outside world changes. Pain is how the universe gets your attention.

    6. You will know you've learned a lesson when your actions change. Wisdom is practice. A little of something is better than a lot of nothing.

    7. "There" is no better than "here". When your "there" becomes a "here" you will simply obtain another "there" that again looks better than "here."

    8. Others are only mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another unless it reflects something you love or hate in yourself.

    9. Your life is up to you. Life provides the canvas; you do the painting. Take charge of your life -- or someone else will.

    10. You always get what you want. Your subconscious rightfully determines what energies, experiences, and people you attract -- therefore, the only foolproof way to know what you want is to see what you have. There are no victims, only students.

    11. There is no right or wrong, but there are consequences. Moralizing doesn't help. Judgments only hold the patterns in place. Just do your best.

    12. Your answers lie inside you. Children need guidance from others; as we mature, we trust our hearts, where the Laws of Spirit are written. You know more than you have heard or read or been told. All you need to do is to look, listen, and trust.

    13. You can remember any time you wish.

    14. You will forget all this.


    (From the book "If Life is a Game, These are the Rules" by Cherie Carter-Scott)
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
      Hmmm no. I doubt it. Everyone knows that "History" is written by the Victors..... I have yet to read anything in any book that would paint the United States in such a light - and that comes from a Canadian soldier who has an interest in world history - more than just the history of my own country.

      I disagree. For example: you'd be hard pressed to find a history book in Iran which mentions the Holocaust. That is, that hasn't been banned. All it takes is a few ignorant students, and a teacher with an agenda can easily erase or edit any chapter of history that doesn't suit their taste.
      "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary

      http://www.lettertogop.com/

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ThNozzleman View Post
        Starting wars for regime change is illegal. World history will ultimately judge the invasion of Iraq (and the "Bush Doctrine" in general) as deceitful, immoral, illegal, and needless.
        Thank God you weren't around in the 30s.Hitler would be a lot farther along on his"Solution to the Jewish Question"than he got because no one would have wanted to fight the Axis powers on grounds that "Germany didn't attack us,Japan did.The President is going in the wrong direction..."
        Hussein had been in violation of the UN mandates that stopped the bombs and invasion back in 1991 for humanitarian reasons.
        He refused to allow UN inspections to make sure he wasn't building nukes or upgrading his chemical weapons which he'd used on Kurds back in the 80s.
        Try doing that when the police come to your door on a gun complaint from a neighbor that doesn't think you should have one.You'd be in worse trouble than he was when he got dragged out of that rathole.
        As to not attacking the US directly,what were you doing in May 1987?In the wee hours,I got dragged out of my rack in Norfolk Va because USS Stark(FFG31) had been hit by two Exocet missiles.Attacking a military ship of ANY flag is an act of war.The plane that fired the missiles was from Iraq and did so in international waters.No reparations for the 27 dead sailors was ever made.
        There's a lot Hussein could have done to avoid being invaded,and a lot the UN and Clinton could have done to avoid having to invade Iraq that was never done.
        We're there and we shouldn't leave until the Iraqis can stand on their own without fear of being gunned down or blown up for supporting the new government or for not praying the "right"way.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by tfdping1018 View Post
          Orders are orders. Thats all there is to it.
          Not true. No soldier is obligated to follow orders that are illegal. i.e. Shooting non combatants.
          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

          Comment


          • #20
            Thank God you weren't around in the 30s.
            There is absolutely NO comparison to then and now. You guys know this...quit bringing it up again and again.
            He refused to allow UN inspections to make sure he wasn't building nukes or upgrading his chemical weapons which he'd used on Kurds back in the 80s.
            BS. Numerous inspections over the years did their jobs. Even as late as 2002 nothing had been found...and nothing has yet to be found. It is becoming clearer and clearer as time goes by (even to those with thick heads) that the evidence used to justify the invasion of Iraq were bogus.
            As to not attacking the US directly,what were you doing in May 1987?
            Umm...that was 20 years ago???
            There's a lot Hussein could have done to avoid being invaded,and a lot the UN and Clinton could have done to avoid having to invade Iraq that was never done.
            Under George W. Bush and Co., there was absolutely NOTHING Iraq could have done to prevent an invasion. These PNAC wet dreams were in effect LONG before Bush became president. They were going into Iraq, consequences be damned and you know it...even if they had to lie to do it.
            We're there and we shouldn't leave until the Iraqis can stand on their own without fear of being gunned down or blown up for supporting the new government or for not praying the "right"way.
            We should leave immediately. Our puppet government will never be able to stand on its own. Do you people ever study even the slightest bit of world history? Imperialism never works...the people will always fight it and the corrupt leaders we prop up there to protect our "national interests" (ie; OIL). I mean, the plan is working so well, right? Thousands upon thousands of people dead and maimed for life, for what? I'll tell you what...the lies and greed of our corporate driven government and its oil thirsty militaristic ideology, and guys like you that buy into the insanity.
            Member IACOJ

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            • #21
              Not true. No soldier is obligated to follow orders that are illegal. i.e. Shooting non combatants.

              You are correct, however, a courts-martial often follows to determine if that action was appropriate.
              Just because one person thinks that an order is illegal, that doesn't mean that it is.
              Last edited by jasper45; 02-11-2007, 04:23 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Well the Lt., can object to going to Iraq. My opinion is probably in the majority so I will refrain from any additional comment. I have been in the military, and yes I did know what I was getting into.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jasper45 View Post
                  You are correct, however, a courts-martial often follows to determine if that action was appropriate.
                  Just because one person thinks that an order is illegal, that doesn't mean that it is.
                  I agree. And it usually puts a tremendous burden upon the defendant to show why they believed the order to illegal.

                  Even here, there have been times I have been given "direct orders" to do something questionable. Like establishing a position in a chimney during a wildland fire. I have to be on rock solid ground with procedures and SOP's at the ready in order to validate why I did NOT follow that order. While we may be making life and death decisions, we are fortunate to never have to make them under the same type of duress one finds in military operations. I've never been scared of anyone purposely trying to kill me during a fire or other incident.
                  I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ThNozzleman View Post
                    Starting wars for regime change is illegal. World history will ultimately judge the invasion of Iraq (and the "Bush Doctrine" in general) as deceitful, immoral, illegal, and needless.

                    I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

                    "I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)



                    As someone in the Military, I took the first oath. He took both oath's. As a volunteer service, this Lt. CHOSE to join the Army. I CHOSE to join the Navy. Privately, do I agree with the United States forgien policy? That is for me to decide. As a United States service member, I follow the orders of those appointed over me. It is not my job to decide forgien policy.

                    He decided to take a stand. If he TRUELY believes in his stand, he will plead guilty and take the punishment handed down.
                    Co 11
                    Virginia Beach FD

                    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

                    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      As a soldier, I can not quite fathom why any person, in a voluntary system, would choose to take up military service at any time. When I was going through my final interview prior to being sworn in (I made a similar oath to those above other than being to Queen and Country ) but before I did that the Air Force Captain made all possible attempts to ensure that I understood:

                      1) I was joining an ARMED service

                      2) I was likely to be given orders I may not like, from people I might like even less {pretty strong statement from an Air Force Officer LOL}

                      3) there was always a possibility of getting into an armed conflict (although in 1987 there didnt seem to be much chance of that)

                      4) by being sent into an armed conflict, there was a possibility that I may either become wounded or dead because of it.

                      I dont know the look on my face, but I recall saying something like "Sir, those are all hazards of being the army. Every soldier knows those things and you either accept them, or you dont take the job."

                      That all said and done, I will give some modicum of respect to the Officer IF he truly believes what he is preaching. Everyone has the right to an opinion, however I think that he chose the wrong profession from the get-go. And as such, has brought upon himself any and all punishments for refusing Command Orders. In this instance, discipline is paramount and it must be enforced.
                      If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

                      "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

                      "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

                      Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

                      impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

                      IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ThNozzleman View Post
                        There is absolutely NO comparison to then and now. You guys know this...quit bringing it up again and again.

                        BS. Numerous inspections over the years did their jobs. Even as late as 2002 nothing had been found...and nothing has yet to be found. It is becoming clearer and clearer as time goes by (even to those with thick heads) that the evidence used to justify the invasion of Iraq were bogus.

                        Umm...that was 20 years ago???

                        Under George W. Bush and Co., there was absolutely NOTHING Iraq could have done to prevent an invasion. These PNAC wet dreams were in effect LONG before Bush became president. They were going into Iraq, consequences be damned and you know it...even if they had to lie to do it.

                        We should leave immediately. Our puppet government will never be able to stand on its own. I'll tell you what...the lies and greed of our corporate driven government and its oil thirsty militaristic ideology, and guys like you that buy into the insanity.
                        1.The same concept applies.Hitler murdered as many people as he could for being of the Jewish faith.Hussein killed people of a different sect of his religion for much the same reason.

                        2.Inspections were delayed,denied and hassled during the 90s.Don't you watch the evening news?If there WERE CBR weapons in Iraq,he had ample time to get them some where else .
                        The documents that were captured in 2003 could have information if they had anything Iraq wasn't supposed to have.The number of translaters being low,it's going to take a while to translate several tons of papers.

                        3.USS Stark WAS hit 20 years ago.When it's your cousin's ship,you tend to recall what you were doing when you heard about it.

                        4.a.The President had an excellent plan to avoid an invasion:all Hussein had to do was abide by the numerous international conventions from the UN and it wouldn't have come to this."Jaw,jaw,jaw is better than war,war,war"so sayeth Winston Churchhill,but even he recognized that diplomacy has its limits when one side doesn't want to negotiate.
                        4.b.How you got the idea President Bush wanted to invade a sovereign nation before he even got elected is beyond me.take your meds and put your tin foil hat back on.

                        5.If the government we are helping doesn't stand on its own,it means that the 3,000 plus soldiers who've died will have wasted themselves.Is that what you want?
                        We still have troops in Germany to keep the peace,troops in Japan to keep the peace and troops in Korea to keep the peace 62 and 54 YEARS after those wars ended.If they weren't needed to make sure the fighting didn't kick back off there for whatever reason,(and we DID take casualties after VE day)why do you suppose the same isn't needed now?There are people in Iraq that DON'T want to have people voting on what the government does.That is what YOU are supporting,friend.
                        If this war was about oil,we'd be getting free oil stipends and the sand dunes in Iraq would collapse as we drained that country.We aren't doing that.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by doughesson View Post
                          If this war was about oil,we'd be getting free oil stipends and the sand dunes in Iraq would collapse as we drained that country.We aren't doing that.
                          And where do you get that? Oil companies don't give away money. They'll take as much if not all you are willing to give them.

                          But I like the fact you keep putting this up as a point. It only reinforces your lacking a grasp of reality.
                          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            1.The same concept applies.Hitler murdered as many people as he could for being of the Jewish faith.Hussein killed people of a different sect of his religion for much the same reason.
                            I assure you, we did NOT wage war against Germany to save the Jews there.
                            2.Inspections were delayed,denied and hassled during the 90s.Don't you watch the evening news?If there WERE CBR weapons in Iraq,he had ample time to get them some where else .
                            The documents that were captured in 2003 could have information if they had anything Iraq wasn't supposed to have.The number of translaters being low,it's going to take a while to translate several tons of papers.
                            Damn, this one gets old. You think Iraq just up and gave their weapons to another nation? Come on. All evidence points to the fact that Iraq did not have these weapons and that the Bush administration lied and twisted the truth. Don't you watch the news??
                            3.USS Stark WAS hit 20 years ago.When it's your cousin's ship,you tend to recall what you were doing when you heard about it.
                            Irrelevant.
                            4.a.The President had an excellent plan to avoid an invasion:all Hussein had to do was abide by the numerous international conventions from the UN and it wouldn't have come to this."
                            Nonsense. Bush was going into Iraq, facts be damned. The neocons have dreamed of it for YEARS.
                            4.b.How you got the idea President Bush wanted to invade a sovereign nation before he even got elected is beyond me.take your meds and put your tin foil hat back on.
                            You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? It's my guess that a LOT of things are beyond you.
                            5.If the government we are helping doesn't stand on its own,it means that the 3,000 plus soldiers who've died will have wasted themselves.Is that what you want?
                            What? Don't even think about pinning that one on me. The travesty that is Iraq is the fault of Bush and guys like you that supported him, instead of using common sense. These soldiers have wasted themselves because of what YOU wanted...a stupid, needless war based on PNAC wet dreams and lies.
                            If this war was about oil,we'd be getting free oil stipends and the sand dunes in Iraq would collapse as we drained that country.We aren't doing that.
                            Now I know you don't have a clue...except what Rush and Hannity feed you. Study some world history and come back when you're ready to debate.
                            Member IACOJ

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by doughesson View Post
                              5.If the government we are helping doesn't stand on its own,it means that the 3,000 plus soldiers who've died will have wasted themselves.Is that what you want?
                              This is about the most bizarre logic I've ever seen. Thousands dead. Tens of thousands wounded. And somehow more might die and more might be wounded for your idea of a victory.

                              I pray that thought is not prevalent in those who will be making the ultimate decisions.
                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Army Deserter Gets 7 Months In Prison. Man Quit Army Rather Than Serve In Iraq

                                POSTED: 1:17 am EST February 23, 2007

                                FORT HOOD, Texas -- A soldier who admitted fleeing from the Army rather than deploying to Iraq for a second time was sentenced Thursday to seven months in a military prison and given a bad conduct discharge.

                                Spc. Mark Wilkerson, who pleaded guilty to desertion and missing troop movement earlier Thursday as part of a plea deal, faced a maximum sentence of 10 months.

                                Wilkerson, 23, surrendered at Fort Hood in August -- about a year and a half after failing to return from an approved two-week leave. He said he was tired of running and wanted to move forward with his life.

                                "I quit the Army, I quit my unit, and I did not show up when I needed to," Wilkerson told the judge Thursday.

                                Prosecutor Capt. Derek Leo had asked the judge to send Wilkerson to prison and then release him with a dishonorable discharge.

                                "He simply abandoned his Army family when they needed him most," Leo said in closing arguments. "A message must be sent ... that when one deserts and by design misses movement, confinement will occur."

                                Wilkerson's lawyer, Michael J. Duncan, unsuccessfully argued that his client should not be incarcerated because he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder.

                                Wilkerson said he decided to go AWOL because his conscientious objector status was denied a month before his unit was to return to Iraq in early 2005. Wilkerson, who was 17 when he enlisted, has said his views on the war changed after he served in Iraq for a year beginning at the start of the March 2003 invasion.

                                Since his return, Wilkerson has worked in an office at the central Texas Army post and has been allowed to leave after initially being confined to the post, although he was never in a cell, he said.

                                Two weeks ago at Fort Lewis, Wash., a judge declared a mistrial in the court-martial of an Army lieutenant who refused to deploy to Iraq. A new trial is set for next month for 1st Lt. Ehren Watada of Honolulu, who has said he refused to go because he believes the war is illegal.

                                Army medic Agustin Aguayo, who turned himself in last fall after fleeing before his second deployment to Iraq, is scheduled for trial next month in Germany.

                                Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press
                                If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

                                "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

                                "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

                                Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

                                impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

                                IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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