new hires and union meetings

[mook13]

Got any ideas on how to get the newer guys involved and go to uinion meetings. seems times have change and it is impossible to get the new guys to go or get involved. We're going through contract negociations and tried to explain to them that what we fight for now is going to effect them more then the older guys. They just don't seem to care, even tried to explain that they need to get involved to learn the system, who is going to take care of things when the older guys are retiring.
Tried asking, calling, posting on union web page, hell even a little harrassment and nothing. I have to post our next meeting schedule tonight and see if anyone wants anything put on the forum for next meeting.
Got any ideas?

heck, I even said we rent a bus and just show up and take them(against their will) to the meeting and they find their own ride home. Eventually they would get the point, but I'm sure that would go bad. Just a thought, LOL

sorry for bad sp, in a rush to get to my second job

[Dalmatian190]

LOL...that sounds so much like a rant about getting volunteers to show up for training meetings!

And probably very similiar root causes.

Busy working (2nd jobs), busy recreating, busy hauling the kids around, yadda yadda yadda.

[CALFFBOU]

Maybe wait until they are off of probation and you might get a better response form the new people?

[mook13]

that's the funny thing, Ive talked to most of the guys. No second jobs, heck some still live at home. No kids and yadda yadda, just seems like they don't care anymore.
When I first got hired 15yrs ago, it seemed like you got involved because you were expected to and want to prove yourself.
But they all want to raise the starting pay and make their top out in 5 yrs instead of 7. I'm all about making things better for newer guys, but they at least should have an interest. We are looking into a certain percentage paid by the district for health insurance after you retire . It's a great idea and it is going to help the newer guys more. And again I'm all about making things better for them, but how do you get them more involved?

and on the probation thing, seems we still go out of our way , and we should, to help them during thier probation. Some guys have even had their jobs saved during probation because they didn't meet certain requirements in required time, becoming a paramedic. But the union got them to extend the time for these two guys.

I'm not trying to rant, just looking to see if anyone else has these problems and how did they make a change. I'm on the Union board and out of ideas to get these guys interested in what is going on

LOL...that sounds so much like a rant about getting volunteers to show up for training meetings!

And probably very similiar root causes.

Busy working (2nd jobs), busy recreating, busy hauling the kids around, yadda yadda yadda.

[BKDRAFT]

I'm a probie and go to all of our union meetings. I wouldn't even want to experience what would happen if I missed one.

I would explain to them the importance of the union, and why it is there. Explain to them how much it will effect there future. Obviousley they don't appreciate that they are members of the best union in the world.

IAFF 2423 here!

[LtTim556]

Being from a "right to work state" myself, there is not much you can do to force them to join the union. As far as harrasment, that can get you and the Union in deep do-do. You have explained to them the importance of the Union and still they do not join. Just keep trying and working on them, short of harrassing of course. Younglings of today always seem to want it all right now, and without the work it takes to get it. Some, not all, feel it is owed them since we live in a microwave society. An example, as far as I am concerned, is the certificates many must earn starting with FF I and so forth. While I do not deny that very important information is taught, some of the youngsters feel that is all they need to be firefighters. Never mind real world expierence. I have taken some of those kids through a controled burn trailer. It is not like the real thing yet they think it is enough. It is just the start, and usually when they do get the chance to get in a real out of control fire they are a bit scared. Which is good to a point of course. Then they will realize what it takes to be a firefighter. And if they get screwed by management then they will want a good Union on there side.

[mook13]

sorry, I guess i didn't explain it well enough. They are all in the union, I guess that one goes without saying on you just join. We are 100% in our numbers of who is in the union, it's around 100 members.
Maybe I am just venting and there is no right answer. Just kinda burned out on talking to these guys and trying to get them to care and help out. \
Thanks for all the input

Being from a "right to work state" myself, there is not much you can do to force them to join the union. As far as harrasment, that can get you and the Union in deep do-do. You have explained to them the importance of the Union and still they do not join. Just keep trying and working on them, short of harrassing of course. Younglings of today always seem to want it all right now, and without the work it takes to get it. Some, not all, feel it is owed them since we live in a microwave society. An example, as far as I am concerned, is the certificates many must earn starting with FF I and so forth. While I do not deny that very important information is taught, some of the youngsters feel that is all they need to be firefighters. Never mind real world expierence. I have taken some of those kids through a controled burn trailer. It is not like the real thing yet they think it is enough. It is just the start, and usually when they do get the chance to get in a real out of control fire they are a bit scared. Which is good to a point of course. Then they will realize what it takes to be a firefighter. And if they get screwed by management then they will want a good Union on there side.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Apathy....

Someone said that the Union should do something, everyone agreed, no one showed up, nothing got done... then everybody bitched that the Union didn't do enough...

These are the same kinds of "brothers" who don't go out to support and vote for candidates who support us, yet complain when MUTTS get elected and try to screw us by screwing with our contracts.

For those who fit in the above category... take a good hard look in the mirror... as you have done the physically impossible... screwed yourself and your brothers at the same time (I hope you had "protection"...)

PS: every career FD has at least one of these characters.. I think it is an NFPA requirement.

For our call and volunteer brothers... it's the same problem with training nights... everyone knows everything... and when they go a fire, they look like monkeys attemtpting to fornicate with a football. Everyone wants to go to put wet stuff on red stuff... but calls for ems assistance get paged 2, 3, even 4 times....

[mook13]

classic, good one there

Apathy....

Someone said that the Union should do something, everyone agreed, no one showed up, nothing got done... then everybody bitched that the Union didn't do enough...

[KenNFD1219]

Rule of Thirds

FIRE SERVICE RULE OF THIRDS
The fire service operates on a rule of thirds. Understanding this rule will help you understand the actions of certain members. Read this and ask yourself, where do I fit in this rule of thirds?

ONE THIRD OFTHE MEMBERS DON'T WANT TO DO THE JOB:
They dedicate all of their time and energy to their second job.
They are much too busy to attend a union or association meeting.
They can never find the time to serve on a committee.
They complain vigorously about everything but won't do anything to try to improve anything.
The fire job is an inconvenience to them.
They are easy to find at a fire, the are the ones near the apparatus always having trouble with their SCBA.

ONE THIRD OF THE MEMBERS DON"T KNOW HOW TO DO THE JOB:
They never took a class in firefighting.
They don't want to train.
If an in service class is scheduled on their group, they will take a vacation or sick day.
They don't have time to come to union or association meetings.
They know the television schedule for every channel.
They know which vacation schedule has the most days off, especially weekends.
They know the date and time that the special checks, longevity, holiday, clothing arrive.
They know how many sick days they have left and when they will get more to use.
They are easy to find at fires. They are the ones standing outside with a rake or hook in their hand waiting for the coffee truck.

ONE THIRD OF THE MEMBERS WANT TO DO THE JOB AND DO IT WELL:
These members rarely miss a union or an association meeting.
They frequently take classes in firefighting, even on their own time.
They are eager to drill.
They work a second job but always find time or serve on committees, hold office and help out on anything that will benefit the members.
The only complaining they do is at union/association meetings and they always have a suggestion on how to make things better.
They might not know the television schedule or how to operate the remote control, but, they do know where all the equipment is on the company they are assigned to and they know how it works.
They probably don't know what day clothing allowance comes out, but they do know how to get the pump into manual shift override.
They also can't tell you how many sick days they have accrued, but you can bet the last one they used wasn't on a Friday or Saturday night.
They are difficult to find at fires. The only time you see them is when they come out to change their air bottle.

[jlcooke3]

KenNFD1219, loved the rule of thirds. Unfortunately it seems to true.

Mook 13, I'm pretty sure forcing the guys to get involved is going to backfire on you. You are correct younger members seem less likely to get involved than older members. Find a young (or younger member) who is active and understands what the union is about and have him approach the younger members one on one. Another issue is making sure that your meetings are positive and arent filled with petty arguing (I don't know and arn't accusing, just throwing ideas out).

[mook13]

excellant, thanks

FIRE SERVICE RULE OF THIRDS
The fire service operates on a rule of thirds. Understanding this rule will help you understand the actions of certain members. Read this and ask yourself, where do I fit in this rule of thirds?

ONE THIRD OFTHE MEMBERS DON'T WANT TO DO THE JOB:
They dedicate all of their time and energy to their second job.
They are much too busy to attend a union or association meeting.
They can never find the time to serve on a committee.
They complain vigorously about everything but won't do anything to try to improve anything.
The fire job is an inconvenience to them.
They are easy to find at a fire, the are the ones near the apparatus always having trouble with their SCBA.

ONE THIRD OF THE MEMBERS DON"T KNOW HOW TO DO THE JOB:
They never took a class in firefighting.
They don't want to train.
If an in service class is scheduled on their group, they will take a vacation or sick day.
They don't have time to come to union or association meetings.
They know the television schedule for every channel.
They know which vacation schedule has the most days off, especially weekends.
They know the date and time that the special checks, longevity, holiday, clothing arrive.
They know how many sick days they have left and when they will get more to use.
They are easy to find at fires. They are the ones standing outside with a rake or hook in their hand waiting for the coffee truck.

ONE THIRD OF THE MEMBERS WANT TO DO THE JOB AND DO IT WELL:
These members rarely miss a union or an association meeting.
They frequently take classes in firefighting, even on their own time.
They are eager to drill.
They work a second job but always find time or serve on committees, hold office and help out on anything that will benefit the members.
The only complaining they do is at union/association meetings and they always have a suggestion on how to make things better.
They might not know the television schedule or how to operate the remote control, but, they do know where all the equipment is on the company they are assigned to and they know how it works.
They probably don't know what day clothing allowance comes out, but they do know how to get the pump into manual shift override.
They also can't tell you how many sick days they have accrued, but you can bet the last one they used wasn't on a Friday or Saturday night.
They are difficult to find at fires. The only time you see them is when they come out to change their air bottle.

[mook13]

good points. This is why I posted this, to get different points of view and new ways to approach it

KenNFD1219, loved the rule of thirds. Unfortunately it seems to true.

Mook 13, I'm pretty sure forcing the guys to get involved is going to backfire on you. You are correct younger members seem less likely to get involved than older members. Find a young (or younger member) who is active and understands what the union is about and have him approach the younger members one on one. Another issue is making sure that your meetings are positive and arent filled with petty arguing (I don't know and arn't accusing, just throwing ideas out).