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  • #61
    Originally posted by bobsnyder View Post
    Since I'm not a cop, I think that would be assault with a deadly weapon, among other things...I kind of assumed they weren't going 85 when the crash occurred. If they were, I don't think "cuffs" is what the minivan driver would have left the scene in...
    Actually, and this is kind of the point I was making earlier, it could be assault even if you are a cop.

    My brother-in-law is a cop here in New Hampshire, and he explains the law here in this way:

    Intentionally contacting another vehicle or placing your vehicle in a position such that it is likely to come into contact with another vehicle (i.e., "PIT-ing the guy") is considered in New Hampshire to constitute the use of deadly force. So you can't run off the road anyone you couldn't shoot.
    Last edited by randsc; 01-23-2007, 03:52 PM.

    Comment


    • #62
      Actually...

      Originally posted by EFD840 View Post
      Nope, sorry but there's a whole lot more wrong than just the speed. Some folks just can't seem to understand that for all practical purposes, this guy was attempting to elude. Certainly, after the fact everyone knows that wasn't his intention but I guarantee you that's what it looked like to the trooper.

      Randsc, and others keep talking about the trooper pitting the guy. I fail to see that implication anywhere in the story. The firefighter even states "the trooper swooped in front of him, causing an accident". That doesn't sound like an intentional spinout. It does sound like a trooper pulling ahead to get the guy to slow down and pull over - something he had no intention of doing.

      Chicago is right about the 85. There are divided, limited access highways around here where the limit is 55 but the average is probably 75. Without knowing more about the road type and traffic conditions, the speed might not have been excessive as it first appears but once the trooper came into play every choice he mad was a bad (actually criminal) one.

      When a law enforcement officer attempts to stop you, then stop. It is really that simple. This guy has no defense. I've got no idea if Tennessee law extends any rights to volunteers with emergency lights but it doesn't matter because he apparently didn't have any in the minivan. This guy got buck fever and nothing else in the world mattered but getting to that call. That's how you find yourself flying down the road with the family in the vehicle, a trooper in pursuit, and him screaming on the radio for his dispatcher to call off the trooper and unless TN troopers are very different than AL troopers, that ain't gonna happen. The trooper then did something unexpected and a crash occured. This is how you miss the call 'cause you got arrested. It is also how you can miss a call because you got killed while responding.
      ...the "PIT-ing the guy" was speculation on the part of another poster, to which I was responding.

      Comment


      • #63
        That FF is an *******! Aint no emergency worth putting your family in danger
        Firefighter for Vestal 32-2

        American Red Cross Volunteer

        Comment


        • #64
          The saga continues

          Tennessee Firefighter Sues After Arrest

          ............

          JAMIE SATTERFIELD
          Knoxville News-Sentinel

          A decorated Sevier County fi refighter who wound up in handcuffs as he sped to answer a call for help is asking a federal judge to order the Tennessee Highway Patrol to afford volunteer fi refighters the same rights as paid emergency workers.

          Attorney Ronald C. Newcomb has filed on behalf of Sevier County Volunteer Fire Department Lt. Michael Huskey a lawsuit in U.S. District Court against the Department of Safety, THP Trooper Jackie Bailey and Sgt. Kim Ogle over an incident in January 2007. It is a legal action that could both test and shape the law on when and which emergency workers are allowed to disregard traffic laws in emergency situations.

          The lawsuit asks a federal judge to issue an injunction against the agency that would require its employees, including state troopers, "to enter into a mutual aid and cooperation agreement, the core of which is to require (troopers) to honor, respect, enforce and avoid interference with the constitutional and statutory rights, privileges and immunities of all Tennessee fi refi ghters, fi re departments and emergency communication districts," regardless of whether those workers earn taxpayer money.

          THP has declared Bailey and Ogle blameless in the incident with Huskey, according to a letter from the agency's Office of Professional Responsibility. A Department of Safety spokesperson could not be reached for further comment Wednesday.

          Huskey, named the 2005 Sevier County Volunteer Firefighter of the Year, hails from a long line of fi remen. But in January 2007, he wound up jailed after Bailey intentionally crashed the fireman's car in a bid to stop Huskey, who was speeding to answer an emergency call, records show.

          According to the lawsuit, Huskey was traveling in his private vehicle with his wife and three young children on

          Newport Highway in Sevier County on Jan. 5 when he heard a call over his scanner for an ambulance and paramedics to treat a possible stroke victim at a apartment on the nearby South Flat Creek Road.

          Huskey intended to let his brethren handle the call since he had his family with him but became alarmed when he learned over the scanner that the ambulance responding to the call only had two medics on board but needed three - two to care for the patient in the back and a third to drive to the hospital.

          "Assessing the severity of the situation and realizing he was only a couple of miles away from the scene, Huskey radioed central dispatch advising he would be responding in his personal vehicle. ... Huskey immediately turned on his hazard lights," the lawsuit stated.

          As Huskey headed toward Flat Creek, he passed two slower-moving vehicles "on a straightaway just before the Triple C Dance Barn, seeing there was no oncoming traffic," the lawsuit stated.

          It was then Bailey saw him, according to the lawsuit.

          When the trooper activated his blue lights, Huskey said he thought Bailey also was headed to the emergency call.

          "However, just in case the officer was trying to follow him to pull him over, Huskey radioed central dispatch to advise the officer of the traffic call he was responding to, and central dispatch (confirmed) his request."

          Dispatch records back up Huskey's account. What's not clear is whether the trooper's dispatcher conveyed that information to Bailey. THP has its own independent dispatch system.

          As Huskey turned his vehicle onto the curvy, two-lane roadway in Flat Creek, Bailey began spotlighting Huskey. Before Huskey could clear a dangerous blind hill and pull over for the trooper, Bailey executed a maneuver to intentionally crash the fi refi ghter's car, the lawsuit stated. Dispatch records also document the crash.

          Bailey handcuffed Huskey as the firefighter, whose children were screaming in the background, repeatedly tried to explain to the trooper that he was a volunteer fi refi ghter responding to an emergency call, the lawsuit alleged.

          Huskey's supervisors at the fi re department arrived at the scene a short time later to vouch for Huskey, but Bailey, with approval from Ogle, persisted in arresting Huskey on charges of felony evading arrest. State prosecutors agreed in October to dismiss the case in an order that became fi nal last month. In the meantime, however, Huskey, who works as an insurance salesman, contends he and his family have suffered embarrassment and upset. They are seeking $750,000 in damages.

          Jamie Satterfield may be reached at 865-342-6308.


          I'm sorry, but this guy is still wrong. Our SOG is quite clear, if you're in a POV that has no emergency equipment you respond normal traffic, no exceptions! I've had to do and it you get there when you get there. I hope this suit gets thrown out because he caused the embarrassment.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by BrianB35 View Post
            Tennessee Firefighter Sues After Arrest

            ............

            JAMIE SATTERFIELD
            Knoxville News-Sentinel

            A decorated Sevier County fi refighter who wound up in handcuffs as he sped to answer a call for help is asking a federal judge to order the Tennessee Highway Patrol to afford volunteer fi refighters the same rights as paid emergency workers.

            Attorney Ronald C. Newcomb has filed on behalf of Sevier County Volunteer Fire Department Lt. Michael Huskey a lawsuit in U.S. District Court against the Department of Safety, THP Trooper Jackie Bailey and Sgt. Kim Ogle over an incident in January 2007. It is a legal action that could both test and shape the law on when and which emergency workers are allowed to disregard traffic laws in emergency situations.

            The lawsuit asks a federal judge to issue an injunction against the agency that would require its employees, including state troopers, "to enter into a mutual aid and cooperation agreement, the core of which is to require (troopers) to honor, respect, enforce and avoid interference with the constitutional and statutory rights, privileges and immunities of all Tennessee fi refi ghters, fi re departments and emergency communication districts," regardless of whether those workers earn taxpayer money.

            THP has declared Bailey and Ogle blameless in the incident with Huskey, according to a letter from the agency's Office of Professional Responsibility. A Department of Safety spokesperson could not be reached for further comment Wednesday.

            Huskey, named the 2005 Sevier County Volunteer Firefighter of the Year, hails from a long line of fi remen. But in January 2007, he wound up jailed after Bailey intentionally crashed the fireman's car in a bid to stop Huskey, who was speeding to answer an emergency call, records show.

            According to the lawsuit, Huskey was traveling in his private vehicle with his wife and three young children on

            Newport Highway in Sevier County on Jan. 5 when he heard a call over his scanner for an ambulance and paramedics to treat a possible stroke victim at a apartment on the nearby South Flat Creek Road.

            Huskey intended to let his brethren handle the call since he had his family with him but became alarmed when he learned over the scanner that the ambulance responding to the call only had two medics on board but needed three - two to care for the patient in the back and a third to drive to the hospital.

            "Assessing the severity of the situation and realizing he was only a couple of miles away from the scene, Huskey radioed central dispatch advising he would be responding in his personal vehicle. ... Huskey immediately turned on his hazard lights," the lawsuit stated.

            As Huskey headed toward Flat Creek, he passed two slower-moving vehicles "on a straightaway just before the Triple C Dance Barn, seeing there was no oncoming traffic," the lawsuit stated.

            It was then Bailey saw him, according to the lawsuit.

            When the trooper activated his blue lights, Huskey said he thought Bailey also was headed to the emergency call.

            "However, just in case the officer was trying to follow him to pull him over, Huskey radioed central dispatch to advise the officer of the traffic call he was responding to, and central dispatch (confirmed) his request."

            Dispatch records back up Huskey's account. What's not clear is whether the trooper's dispatcher conveyed that information to Bailey. THP has its own independent dispatch system.

            As Huskey turned his vehicle onto the curvy, two-lane roadway in Flat Creek, Bailey began spotlighting Huskey. Before Huskey could clear a dangerous blind hill and pull over for the trooper, Bailey executed a maneuver to intentionally crash the fi refi ghter's car, the lawsuit stated. Dispatch records also document the crash.

            Bailey handcuffed Huskey as the firefighter, whose children were screaming in the background, repeatedly tried to explain to the trooper that he was a volunteer fi refi ghter responding to an emergency call, the lawsuit alleged.

            Huskey's supervisors at the fi re department arrived at the scene a short time later to vouch for Huskey, but Bailey, with approval from Ogle, persisted in arresting Huskey on charges of felony evading arrest. State prosecutors agreed in October to dismiss the case in an order that became fi nal last month. In the meantime, however, Huskey, who works as an insurance salesman, contends he and his family have suffered embarrassment and upset. They are seeking $750,000 in damages.

            Jamie Satterfield may be reached at 865-342-6308.


            I'm sorry, but this guy is still wrong. Our SOG is quite clear, if you're in a POV that has no emergency equipment you respond normal traffic, no exceptions! I've had to do and it you get there when you get there. I hope this suit gets thrown out because he caused the embarrassment.
            This explanation is a self-serving oratory obviously put together by the attorney. The explantion in the first story (swooped in front of him) and the second story (executed a maneuver to intentionally crash the firefi ghter's car,). The PIT manuever (that most of you don't seem to understand) is not executed from in front of the vehicle. It is also not executed at high speeds.

            Methinks that this guy should have left well enough alone. I will be surprised if he doesn't get his clock cleaned on this case.
            PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

            Comment


            • #66
              This my friends, is what is wrong with America now adays.

              How he can even justify his side, is beyond me. If the law gets passed the way he wants it, what would troopers and patrol officers assume, any vehicle speeding with it's hazard lights on is an emergency vehicle, exempt from traffic laws?

              Comment


              • #67
                Come on y'all. Are we really that surprised that something like this has happened yet again? Well, I guess the lawsuit is a new twist, but it's the same old bad judgement.
                "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary

                http://www.lettertogop.com/

                Comment


                • #68
                  Have we forgotten about this already?

                  http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Missouri-Firefighter-Gets-Prison-in-Fatal-Crash/46$57838
                  ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                  Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
                    Have we forgotten about this already?

                    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Missouri-Firefighter-Gets-Prison-in-Fatal-Crash/46$57838
                    Apples and oranges, Chief. One was lucky. One was not. Not a fair comparison.
                    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      This guy was very lucky. He still was in the wrong though.
                      Hello. Fire dept.. You light'em, We fight'em!

                      "hard working, gear jamming, nail driving, "jake". "

                      IACOJ
                      4-16-2010 "On the approach"

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by JHR1985 View Post
                        I havent in the engine because it wont go above 75 but in the ambulance.... i've come real close to 85.


                        i personally dont have a problem from it and my chief has even said long as its somewhat safe.... but thats different for some people.

                        safe for some is only doing 55 with lights and sirens on.
                        If that is true that your Chief said if it is somewhat safe its OK, THEN YOUR CHIEF IS A MORON

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          How??
                          I have gone fast. Real fast in ambulances. As a driver, and passenger. On open, dry roads, with little traffic, in the day, I have pushed 90 in a Vanbulance.

                          There are some pts you just can not drive slow for. They just insist on dying. I know, greedy bahsids.
                          AJ, MICP, FireMedic
                          Member, IACOJ.
                          FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
                          This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Well.............

                            Couple of thoughts........ George, the "Pitting" thing, is that the move where the Patrol Car nudges the rear of the Suspect's vehicle at an angle, when going around a corner, thus causing the suspect to spin out??

                            And........ I have a ton of experience, and formal training, but I have yet to drive an Ambulance that still feels safe above Seventy....... Even the unmarked Crown Vic felt "Loose" in the front end as you passed 90, going up....... The Ambulances that felt best under stress were the Cadillacs, hands down. Heavy, lower center of gravity, etc. made for a good ride..........
                            Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                            In memory of
                            Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                            Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                            IACOJ Budget Analyst

                            I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                            www.gdvfd18.com

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                              Couple of thoughts........ George, the "Pitting" thing, is that the move where the Patrol Car nudges the rear of the Suspect's vehicle at an angle, when going around a corner, thus causing the suspect to spin out??

                              And........ I have a ton of experience, and formal training, but I have yet to drive an Ambulance that still feels safe above Seventy....... Even the unmarked Crown Vic felt "Loose" in the front end as you passed 90, going up....... The Ambulances that felt best under stress were the Cadillacs, hands down. Heavy, lower center of gravity, etc. made for a good ride..........
                              Yes. And the experts on here who believe that you execute the PIT move at 80 mph from in front of the vehicle have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

                              There ain't anybody on here but for you and me that remember Cadilac ambulances.
                              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                                The Ambulances that felt best under stress were the Cadillacs, hands down. Heavy, lower center of gravity, etc. made for a good ride..........
                                The only ambo ever made with a 120 mph speedometer that really meant it! Not much on maneuverability but, oh, on the open road...
                                "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                                sigpic
                                The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                                Comment

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