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  • #46
    Yes, I have never driven 85 on a highway. Matter of fact, I think i may have hit 75 once in South Carolina (I believe) where it was the speed limit.

    Guess I'm different and just not in that much of a rush.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ChicagoFF View Post
      85 in a 55 .... on a highway. Maybe it's just me, but all these over the top responses about 85 seem at least a little funny to me. Are you all saying that you have never done 85 on the highway? You all really putter along at 55 everywhere you go? I call BS! It's really not all that big a deal around here. 75 seems to be the standard and 85 just means you are in a hurry. While we may not know all the details of this story yet, all this hand wringing over 85 on a highway seems funny, to me anyway.
      I can honestly state that I have never done 85 with a Crown Vic running hot behind me trying to pull me over.
      PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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      • #48
        read my post below, it sums the argument up, i accidently typed a whole new reply, rather than edit this one, oh well.
        Last edited by jerry4184; 01-22-2007, 11:08 PM. Reason: hit the wrong button

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        • #49
          I've gone 85mph on the highway...in a 70mph zone and without any passengers. 30mph over the limit is ridiculous, especially with kids in the car and a cop behind it.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
            I can honestly state that I have never done 85 with a Crown Vic running hot behind me trying to pull me over.
            And that's the whole point right there. He was doing 85, or 30 over, while the cop was trying to pull him over. Rather than pull over, the genius calls dispatch to call the cop off, for doing his job. I mean, even if 85 isn't excessive to you, wouldn't you all agree, when the cruiser you just blew by, lights you up, and is obviously trying to pull you over, the thing not to do is call dispatch, and tell them to, more or less, get the cop off your ***, cause you have somewhere to be, emergency or not.

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            • #51
              I saw this article and said to myself "Oh hell, what did someone do now" with the thoughts of the New Jersey story in my head. When I read that this "gentleman" was doing 30 over in a van(minivan) with his wife and kids I thought what would my wife do if I even thought of doing something this stupid. Heck, she'd call 911 on me!!

              This guy was dumb, plain and simple. SOG states 10 over, then you do 10 over and not a MPH more! I've run code in my pov with my wife, mom in law and one of my kids riding shotgun, but again no more than 10 over and yes I stop at green lights because a percentage of our locals are clueless.

              Man my chief would kick me off the department so fast if I EVER did anything this stupid.

              Now for the trooper, this does seem a little much for a traffic violation. Why didn't he/she just radio the Sevier County Sheriff and have the stake strips laid down? It would have been much safer.

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              • #52
                75 in a 70, 70 in a 60, 65 in a 60, 60 in a 55 ALL rural. If you're going faster than 75 you're going to fast.

                55/55, 45/45 35/35 30/30 in town except when runing code, add 10.

                I've done 110-120 on a closed course (drag strip and road course) with a full roll cage and helmet.


                Originally posted by ChicagoFF View Post
                85 in a 55 .... on a highway. Maybe it's just me, but all these over the top responses about 85 seem at least a little funny to me. Are you all saying that you have never done 85 on the highway? You all really putter along at 55 everywhere you go? I call BS! It's really not all that big a deal around here. 75 seems to be the standard and 85 just means you are in a hurry. While we may not know all the details of this story yet, all this hand wringing over 85 on a highway seems funny, to me anyway.

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                • #53
                  My gut feeling...

                  "55 MPH" screams to me he wasn't on a limited access highway. 75, 85mph on a limited access highway isn't that unreasonable in light traffic, and it's a roadway built and maintained to reasonably handle those speeds.

                  85mph when you could have traffic entering from a driveway, and it's likely the road wasn't even a divided road so you have the additional hazards of on-coming traffic and traffic in either direction turning left into your path.

                  Firefighter was being a doofus for driving that fast with his family, not pulling over, and radioing dispatch about it.

                  I have to withold an opinion on the Trooper, since it's not clear how long he had been trying to pull him over or other factors -- I can't tell if it was a legitimate accident, or if he had become too obsessed with pulling the Firefighter over and that caused a judgement lapse. You could argue a similiar "tunnel vision" could have affected the Firefighter...but the Crown Vic with the lights on behind him should've been enough to snap him out of it, not continue being oblivious.

                  I can't even decide what I would do in the Trooper's hat...if I got the radio call that it's a firefighter...do I just back off and spend the time he's on the call looking up every possible thing I could write him up for. Or do I consider that action so far outside of normal behavior that I need to stop him before he operates apparatus and conduct a field sobriety test? If I'm going to do a sobriety test, it sure would be better not to do that in the firehouse parking lot with all the on-lookers it would attract.

                  ===================
                  Personally, all my "speed" records have always been set not responding to a call. Yes, I probably pushed it too hard sometimes, but never as hard as I had just screwing around as a young kid. Last thing I ever wanted was for the Assistant Chief pull me into the office because a Trooper or someone had made a complaint about my driving! Man, Clarence (the A/C and a former MP Sergeant) was the designated butt-chewing officer for a reason...
                  Last edited by Dalmatian190; 01-23-2007, 12:41 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Ok I understand the child endangerment and agree that he should not have had his wife and kids in the car when he decided to respond. But if he had lights on the cop should have at least helped instead of hindering. We are all supposed to work together. Jail seems a bit excessive. That is my opinion though.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by randsc View Post
                      would you really do that at 85mph?
                      No...that's the "for the sake of argument" part. I don't drive any differently in my POV on emergency responses than I do any other time. Which means you could get me for 65 to 70 in a 55 almost any day of the week, but that has nothing to do with emergency responses - that's just normal flow of traffic around here.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by fabricatediem View Post
                        But if he had lights on the cop should have at least helped instead of hindering.
                        According to the article, he had his hazard lights on. A cop seeing a vehicle driving with it's hazard lights on is not going to suspect it's a firefighter.
                        "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I've gone faster

                          Gee folks, 85 mph is slow. I drove 144 mph last summer BUT it was on a NASCAR track with a race car, harness, helmet, etc.

                          10 miles over is plenty and certainly don't respond code with wife and kids.

                          Pete
                          Pete Sinclair
                          Hartford, MI
                          IACOJ (Retired Division)

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by bobsnyder View Post
                            No...that's the "for the sake of argument" part. I don't drive any differently in my POV on emergency responses than I do any other time. Which means you could get me for 65 to 70 in a 55 almost any day of the week, but that has nothing to do with emergency responses - that's just normal flow of traffic around here.
                            I was actually talking about "PIT-ing the guy", which strikes me as insane to do at 85mph.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by randsc
                              I was actually talking about "PIT-ing the guy", which strikes me as insane to do at 85mph.
                              Since I'm not a cop, I think that would be assault with a deadly weapon, among other things...I kind of assumed they weren't going 85 when the crash occurred. If they were, I don't think "cuffs" is what the minivan driver would have left the scene in...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by fabricatediem View Post
                                Ok I understand the child endangerment and agree that he should not have had his wife and kids in the car when he decided to respond. But if he had lights on the cop should have at least helped instead of hindering. We are all supposed to work together. Jail seems a bit excessive. That is my opinion though.

                                Nope, sorry but there's a whole lot more wrong than just the speed. Some folks just can't seem to understand that for all practical purposes, this guy was attempting to elude. Certainly, after the fact everyone knows that wasn't his intention but I guarantee you that's what it looked like to the trooper.

                                Randsc, and others keep talking about the trooper pitting the guy. I fail to see that implication anywhere in the story. The firefighter even states "the trooper swooped in front of him, causing an accident". That doesn't sound like an intentional spinout. It does sound like a trooper pulling ahead to get the guy to slow down and pull over - something he had no intention of doing.

                                Chicago is right about the 85. There are divided, limited access highways around here where the limit is 55 but the average is probably 75. Without knowing more about the road type and traffic conditions, the speed might not have been excessive as it first appears but once the trooper came into play every choice he mad was a bad (actually criminal) one.

                                When a law enforcement officer attempts to stop you, then stop. It is really that simple. This guy has no defense. I've got no idea if Tennessee law extends any rights to volunteers with emergency lights but it doesn't matter because he apparently didn't have any in the minivan. This guy got buck fever and nothing else in the world mattered but getting to that call. That's how you find yourself flying down the road with the family in the vehicle, a trooper in pursuit, and him screaming on the radio for his dispatcher to call off the trooper and unless TN troopers are very different than AL troopers, that ain't gonna happen. The trooper then did something unexpected and a crash occured. This is how you miss the call 'cause you got arrested. It is also how you can miss a call because you got killed while responding.

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