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24 hour shifts. Need input before voting.

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  • JHR1985
    replied
    For the ones who talk bad about the 24hr schedule.....

    some of the busiest departments in the nation do the 24 variation of some kind. FDNY doesnt but Dallas, Houston, Chicago and LAFD do it too I believe.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeyboy
    replied
    Thanks......

    Thanks for the info.

    I can understand why there is the reluctancy to work 48 hrs...... I respect that.

    I still think that a 4 Platoon System is a great idea...... would never fly here though......... LOL.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by LtTim556 View Post
    I work a 72 hour week.
    That's not a job, it borders on slavery.

    That sh*t just ain't right no matter how slow the station is -- even with OT after 56 hours...

    Leave a comment:


  • LtTim556
    replied
    I work a 72 hour week. 24 on 24 off. We get a Kelly day in each pay period giving 3 days off and it works out that once a quarter we get two Kelly days back to back giving 5 days off. We don't have many runs and even fewer fires but it ain't bad. If you can schedule vacation between a 3 day and a 5 day you can have 22 days off in a row.

    Leave a comment:


  • R1SAlum
    replied
    Mikeyboy

    The 4 platoon, or 4 shift system is primarliy an East Coast thing. We are fortunate through the collective bargaining system or the legislature, to work roughly the same hours the rest of the city employees do. In Washington the version we work is 24 on and 72 off. I still don't want to be in the firehouse for 48 hours straight even if you apply it with 120 hours off.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by mikeyboy View Post
    How exactly does a 4 Platoon System work? My curiousity is peaked.......
    4 shifts averaging 42 hours per week as opposed to 3 shifts averaging 56 hours per week.

    Some of the simpler 4 shift rotations are: "3 on / 3 off" - A/C, A/C, A/C, B/D, B/D, B/D, C/A, C/A, C/A, D/B, D/B, D/B (work daytime shift for 3 days, 3 days off, work nights for 3 days, 3 days off); "24 on / 24 off / 24 on / 5 days off" - A, B, A, B, C, D, C, D; "24 on / 3 days off" - A,B,C,D.

    There are other more complex variations with 53 hour average work weeks with odd 8 hour shifts thrown in here and there but I've never had the misfortune of having to figure out how they work.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeyboy
    replied
    Even Sweeter........

    A 4 Platoon System........ this schedule would be even sweeter than...... 2 days on and then 6 days off......... 6 days everytime you go home, that makes for a lot of days with the family. Most Departments here run a 3 Platoon System, so we don't have that luxury.

    How exactly does a 4 Platoon System work? My curiousity is peaked.......

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by R1SAlum View Post
    I wouldn't want that shift. Anyone with a 4-shift platoon schedule working a 42 hour work week probably doesn't either.
    Got to agree with that even for a 3-shift schedule... A 48 hour shift is just too long to be at the firehouse. 24 hours on for a regular shift is about the limit. The occasional 34 or 38 thrown in with an OT shift isn't bad but not all the time.

    Our rotating shifts changed a few years ago from 3 on / 3 off alternating days and nights each tour to 24 on / 3 days off. I don't think anyone here would ever vote in favor of going back.

    My only regret is that we didn't go to 24 on / 24 off / 4 days off instead. Either way, 24 hours shifts beat 10s and 14s. (Unless you have a super busy department and the 24s constantly wear you out. ).

    Leave a comment:


  • R1SAlum
    replied
    [QUOTE=mikeyboy;767773]At my Career Department, we work 48 on 96 off....... If I time trade a tour, then I get 10 days off........ I have worked a number of different schedules and this is the schedule that I would recommend to any Department.

    I wouldn't want that shift. Anyone with a 4-shift platoon schedule working a 42 hour work week probably doesn't either.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeyboy
    replied
    Our Schedule.......

    At my Career Department, we work 48 on 96 off....... If I time trade a tour, then I get 10 days off........ I have worked a number of different schedules and this is the schedule that I would recommend to any Department. Here's why, if you get hammered what do you usually do.......... sleep. With this schedule, you sleep the first half of the day (or however long it takes you to recoup) then you still have 3 days with the family. In a 4 week cycle at a busy house you get to see your family between 14 and 20 days. As a family man this is awesome.

    I know that there are critics that say we run ______ calls a shift so we have to run partials........ hey if it works for you then cool. I'd rather get my tail handed to me and not have to worry about work once I go home. Yes, I have worked at busy houses and yet it still works for us.

    My Paid-Call Department runs both schedules. Part of the Department runs 24 on-off-on-off-on-off-on then a four day...... every 3rd 4 day is replaced with a 6 day. Having worked this schedule for many years, it doesn't even come close to the 48/96 schedule.

    As far as the really busy Stations, my advice is that Management needs to realize that the busy Stations don't need to be bogged down with the B.S. "busy work" that is usually associated with this job. The slower Stations should be able to absorb most of these chores. I'm not sayin' that busy Stations shouldn't do the minimum or meet the Standards set by the Department but the slower Stations should be able to handle any Special Assignments, unless the personnel at the other Stations are willing to accept the task.
    Another idea is to rotate the busy Stations with the slower Stations, not for a while just a few days a month or whatever works for your Department. That way the bulk of the Department is sharing the work load and getting to know other parts of the City.

    KBRfiredog,
    I had an ole' Capt. that went to work there, tryin' to catch-up with him to see how he is doin'......... Also, was that a San Bernardino County Fire Department patch that Daniel Clark was holding? I am only curious cause that is the Department that my Buddy worked for and retired from......
    Also, used to have a Probie FF that worked for my Career Department that went back to work there. I am also curious how he is doin'........ P.M. me and I'll get you the names to see if you have heard of 'em or are able to track 'em down for me..........

    Leave a comment:


  • jonnyirons2
    replied
    We routinely do 20 run 24's where I work (not every 24 hour shift), and the Engina does even more. I have been so tired that I cant remember what i was walking from the housewatch to the kitchen for and been so awake when the tone alarm went off for a 'Multiple calls 4 engines and 3 trucks, Clown Wagon and Squad' run that you guys must have 20 years on the job. I really wouldnt worry about the guy that you 'think' may be tired to deter you from doing 24's. Dont worry you will not regret it, you probably dont have laws that prevent you from doing 24 hour shifts back to back like we do, another big reason we wont ever take 24 hour tours from the City.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by polecat View Post
    The members who are against 24 hr. shifts, typically are young dads,concerned they will have less opportunitys to coach their kids, and special occassions like birthdays and Christmas would be missed entirely.
    What they have to understand is that they will be working exactly the same number of day shifts and night shifts that they have always worked. They will have as much time -- or more -- to be with their families with a 24 hour shift block as they had with seperate 10's and 14's.

    The only difference is that, if one particular day is critical, they might have to work that whole 24 hour tour*. Of course the odds of that happening are only 1/2 the odds that they'd miss half the day now...

    PS if you do go to 24s, keep your 24 hour "tour" as 10 & 14 hour "shifts" run end-to-end. It's less hassle to replace time off that way, IMHO.

    *(Do you have a "swap" provision in your contract? For most days there's going to be someone available and willing to swap half or all of an occasional tour against getting bailed out of one of their tours in exchange.)

    Leave a comment:


  • turbo1
    replied
    Originally posted by polecat View Post
    Like you , I too wear down towards the end of a busy 24 hr. shift. Its fine to work 24's on occassion, but I don't think I'd want them on a regular basis.
    That was one of the point's that management was using to try and squash the 24 hr shift possibility in Vancouver. They said it would be too hard on the guys in the Downtown core and some of the stations on the east side. Lots of pro's and con's on this topic i'm starting too see................

    Leave a comment:


  • polecat
    replied
    Excellent argument bro.

    Like you , I too wear down towards the end of a busy 24 hr. shift. Its fine to work 24's on occassion, but I don't think I'd want them on a regular basis. I suspect some crew members would need to pace themselves for the long haul, by refraining from strenuous activities early into their shift.and may neglect their normal duties as a result. Getting a few zzz's at work is no guarantee for me, assigned to the 3rd busiest engine co. in Canada. ( Metrotown).Sooner or later the big one will happen 10 minutes before shift change,when the fatigue has set in to the point where the driver may feel impaired from sleep deprivation,not a ideal situation from a safety stand point. Thanks for everyones input. I'm amazed at the variety of work schedules that are possible

    Yours in solidarity,

    Bryan Kirk

    Leave a comment:


  • drparasite
    replied
    24s are great if you are a slow department. like, if you only get maybe 5-10 calls (or less) in a 24 hour shift, then they are great. but if you are getting 20 calls, then what? if you have been running your *** off for the first 20 hours, how good will you be when you get the multiple dwelling fire with people trapped, then what?

    Are you aware of how many hours you can be awake before your body stops functioning at 100%? I know for me, after hour 21, I end up extremely grumpy and shivering, and desperate need of sleep. It's a complete change from my normal personality.

    now, do you want an apparatus driver who has been up for 24 hours? or 20 hours? cause we all know that everyone sleeps right before they get ready for their shift right? why do you think most urban and suburban EMS agencies don't work 24s?

    Again, 24 hour shifts are great for slow houses. and if you typically can get enough time to sleep, then I absolutely think you should pursue them. but if you typically running for most of your shift, then imagine how that can feel after hour 20.

    Leave a comment:

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