24 hour shifts. Need input before voting.

[Catch22]

I've been working 24/48 for several years now (7 I think, man how time flies) and wouldn't have it any other way. You take one shift off and you get 5 days and still get a decent check (I'd hate to go on a 24/72 making only $10.82/hr ). Plus, there's two full days between. But, it's all on what you get used to. If you went like you described, once the guys got used to it they'd probably wonder why you hadn't done it before. I also know guys on a neighboring department thatare on the 24 on, 24 off, 24 on, 24 off, 24 on, 4 off (or however that one goes, I'm sure I butchered it) schedule that woudn't test at our department to save their lives because they love what they're on.

[Nozzleman25]

We work 24/48's and wouldn't have it any other way. Paychecks are 104 hrs every two weeks Since our average hours are 52 per week when kelly days are fugured in. Great schedule and alows plenty of oportunity to work OT if it is available.

[Ack8236]

We work 24's, on-off-on-off-on-off for 4 days. I love it and never want to go back to anything less than 24's. We work 112 hours in a two-week pay period. We don't have Kelly days, so we get the FLSA "OT".

[FFFRED]

Points to ponder:

Do you receive overtime for runs during shift change? If so, those OT runs are cut in half.
How about travel pay for details at the start of tours? Also cut in half.

Are you allowed to swap shifts: a day for a night and work a 24 when you want? If so why be forced when you can choose.

We work a 9-9, 48 off then 15-15, 72 off. The majority of our members wouldn't even allow our unions to talk about it, much less change it. And our city has been trying to sell us on 24 hour tours for some time.

If they want it that bad, it's good for them and bad for us.

If you do decide to change, bargain a productivity raise for it.

I'm with him on this as well. I'd vote no but the circumstances might be a bit different there than here.

Best of luck whatever you guys choose.

FTM-PTB

[turbo1]

Our membership will soon be voting on changing our hours of work,from the traditional 2-10 hr. days / 2-14 hr. nights,followed by 4 days off, to instead ,24 hrs. on, 24 hrs. off, 24 hrs. on, with 5 days off. The members seem equally divided into two groups. There are those who would love to save the fuel with half the commutes ,and vote in favor of 24 hr. shifts. These members generally live the furthest from work. The members who are against 24 hr. shifts, typically are young dads,concerned they will have less opportunitys to coach their kids, and special occassions like birthdays and Christmas would be missed entirely.Myself,i'm worried about the few anal taxpayers who figure we're not working hard enough. I also recently heard that some of our local law enforcement officers are choked that we sometimes sleep on the job,and think the beds should be removed. Sure hope that topic disappears. Please weigh-in, I'd like to hear your views.

Any news on how the vote went?? I'm just to the west of you in Vancouver and we voted in favour of trying it. Now just because we voted in favour doesn't mean its gonna happen anytime soon. It's been dragged through city council meetings, presentations have been made in favour of it etc....Upper management is against it (probably because its something the men want) and now the rumour is it's going to be brought up in negotiations for our new contract. Personally i'm all for trying it on a test basis like Toronto Fire, but if we have to give up something more in contract talks to get it they can go pound sand.....................

[JHR1985]

I love working 24-48. You take off a shift and you got 5 whole days off. OT isnt a problem for me. We have FLSA overtime and Kelly days, which for us is 24 hours of OT pay 4 times a year. Gives you plenty of time to work a part time gig and such.

Biggest downside to it is when you work a swap, you gotta work like 48 hours in a row. I've done 72 and wasnt my favorite time but I would still do it again.

[turbo1]

Biggest downside to it is when you work a swap, you gotta work like 48 hours in a row. I've done 72 and wasnt my favorite time but I would still do it again.

Is there any possibility of working half a shift(12 hrs) when doing a swap?? Or do you have to work the entire 24 hrs. Also like most departments we have our busy stations and our quieter ones. Do the guys working out of your busier ones get burned out faster??.....Has it cut down on sick time?? because that would be a real selling point to the city. .............thanks for any input. We have been looking at the 24 hr shift for sometime now...............

[allineedisu]

ummmm, a ten and fourteen is the only way to go, but that is all I ever worked and it was in the contract.

[JHR1985]

You can work it however you want.... 12's...3's but I tend to prefer to do 24's since I want the whole shift... not just half. Now, if I get called up and they need me in a hurry, thats a different story.


But, it also depends on your admin's SOP's. Some want a 72hr notice before a swap... some limit the amount of swaps you can do in a year... some frown on cash swaps. Variety of crap.



And, it cuts down on sicktime some. Some prefer, if they get approval to rather than going home sick, to get a swap to come in. Hard part is getting someone to come in on such short notice

[callaway75]

Recently switched from 3 days 10hrs, 3 off, 3 nights 14 hrs 3 off. Now we do 24/72 and everyone pretty much seems to love it. Trade time can be done any way you want, 4hrs, half shift, whole shift, etc. So far sicktime is a little less, but not enough time yet to see a true average for comparison. Awesome for guys with other jobs, lots of free time.

[drparasite]

24s are great if you are a slow department. like, if you only get maybe 5-10 calls (or less) in a 24 hour shift, then they are great. but if you are getting 20 calls, then what? if you have been running your *** off for the first 20 hours, how good will you be when you get the multiple dwelling fire with people trapped, then what?

Are you aware of how many hours you can be awake before your body stops functioning at 100%? I know for me, after hour 21, I end up extremely grumpy and shivering, and desperate need of sleep. It's a complete change from my normal personality.

now, do you want an apparatus driver who has been up for 24 hours? or 20 hours? cause we all know that everyone sleeps right before they get ready for their shift right? why do you think most urban and suburban EMS agencies don't work 24s?

Again, 24 hour shifts are great for slow houses. and if you typically can get enough time to sleep, then I absolutely think you should pursue them. but if you typically running for most of your shift, then imagine how that can feel after hour 20.

[polecat]

Excellent argument bro.

Like you , I too wear down towards the end of a busy 24 hr. shift. Its fine to work 24's on occassion, but I don't think I'd want them on a regular basis. I suspect some crew members would need to pace themselves for the long haul, by refraining from strenuous activities early into their shift.and may neglect their normal duties as a result. Getting a few zzz's at work is no guarantee for me, assigned to the 3rd busiest engine co. in Canada. ( Metrotown).Sooner or later the big one will happen 10 minutes before shift change,when the fatigue has set in to the point where the driver may feel impaired from sleep deprivation,not a ideal situation from a safety stand point. Thanks for everyones input. I'm amazed at the variety of work schedules that are possible

Yours in solidarity,

Bryan Kirk

[turbo1]

Like you , I too wear down towards the end of a busy 24 hr. shift. Its fine to work 24's on occassion, but I don't think I'd want them on a regular basis.

That was one of the point's that management was using to try and squash the 24 hr shift possibility in Vancouver. They said it would be too hard on the guys in the Downtown core and some of the stations on the east side. Lots of pro's and con's on this topic i'm starting too see................

[DeputyMarshal]

The members who are against 24 hr. shifts, typically are young dads,concerned they will have less opportunitys to coach their kids, and special occassions like birthdays and Christmas would be missed entirely.

What they have to understand is that they will be working exactly the same number of day shifts and night shifts that they have always worked. They will have as much time -- or more -- to be with their families with a 24 hour shift block as they had with seperate 10's and 14's.

The only difference is that, if one particular day is critical, they might have to work that whole 24 hour tour*. Of course the odds of that happening are only 1/2 the odds that they'd miss half the day now...

PS if you do go to 24s, keep your 24 hour "tour" as 10 & 14 hour "shifts" run end-to-end. It's less hassle to replace time off that way, IMHO.

*(Do you have a "swap" provision in your contract? For most days there's going to be someone available and willing to swap half or all of an occasional tour against getting bailed out of one of their tours in exchange.)

[jonnyirons2]

We routinely do 20 run 24's where I work (not every 24 hour shift), and the Engina does even more. I have been so tired that I cant remember what i was walking from the housewatch to the kitchen for and been so awake when the tone alarm went off for a 'Multiple calls 4 engines and 3 trucks, Clown Wagon and Squad' run that you guys must have 20 years on the job. I really wouldnt worry about the guy that you 'think' may be tired to deter you from doing 24's. Dont worry you will not regret it, you probably dont have laws that prevent you from doing 24 hour shifts back to back like we do, another big reason we wont ever take 24 hour tours from the City.