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  • DennisTheMenace
    replied
    Originally posted by SSTONER
    I am sure there are products I consume that are from undocumented workers here.....after all there are some great restraunts in south tucson.
    Do you enjoy your neighbors lawn looking nice or would you rather they look like crap? Go to a hotel/motel this year? Did you like having the room clean? Been to a newly constructed building lately? Go to your bank or the mall lately? Did you enjoy the cleanseness there? Did you have a salad or fruit to eat this week? Damn right you consume products from undocumented workers. And the fact is that many of those folks are working with forged documents so that they are paying taxes and paying into social security yet will never get a chance to collect that ss contribution or get a refund of any over payment on the taxes.

    Leave a comment:


  • SSTONER
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86
    Your correct. Paul is the business owner. You are Peter. The way the system is currently configured, Paul is getting a free ride on Peter's back. If you don't believe those benefitting should pay a share then accept the fact that your taxes are benefitting others.
    You know you have hit on what those for immigration reform here in AZ want to change.

    It goes from the business who knowingly employee illegals right down to changing the mindset of the Mexican government.

    Keep in mind many illegals find folks who sell them fake ID and SS cards to gain employment.

    Leave a comment:


  • SSTONER
    replied
    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    It would be interesting to see his life under a microscope to see all of the benefit that he derives from undocumented labor.
    I am sure there are products I consume that are from undocumented workers here.....after all there are some great restraunts in south tucson.

    Leave a comment:


  • SSTONER
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86
    It's much easier to blame the folks with no voice and no means to fight back.

    SStoner proves our points without even realizing it.
    I dont blame the people completely...I blame Mexico and its so called government.

    They simply refuse to employ any reform to help those mexican citizens who truly want to stay but cant afford to. You dont see the middle class mexican citizens running over here or the wealthy. Mexico is a great place if you dont live in a shack on the border.

    The ones with money only buy vacation homes over here and shop. They arent looking to collect welfare benefits.

    Maybe we should look for a country to take our sick and poor off our hands too.

    The only blame from this side of the border is what a great country we live in.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by SSTONER
    This nothing more than robbing paul to pay peter....wonderful.

    So either way I have to pay for it?
    Your correct. Paul is the business owner. You are Peter. The way the system is currently configured, Paul is getting a free ride on Peter's back. If you don't believe those benefitting should pay a share then accept the fact that your taxes are benefitting others.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-02-2006, 11:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • SSTONER
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86
    And why isn't Cochise County demanding compensation from the Feds who refuse monitor the border? Or going after those who are caught employing illegals for a fine or surtax or whatever for compensation?

    Once again your target is misdirected.
    This nothing more than robbing paul to pay peter....wonderful.

    So either way I have to pay for it?

    Leave a comment:


  • DennisTheMenace
    replied
    Originally posted by RoughRider
    SC,

    I choose enforcing the current immigration laws until a solution is in place. Believe me I realize we need major changes.
    Until then no American citizen should be forced to bare the burden when our government refuses to enforce its own laws.
    The current law is unenforcable though because the policies are so screwed up. The policy can be changed almost immediately, or atleast relatively quickly and much faster than a wall/fence can be built, if the leaders in Washington would hear folks calling for positive change in the policy and not just a mix of let them all stay or lock them all up and out.

    And if the burden is there, why should we not make the folks benefiting cough up the funds to alleve a bit of it?

    Leave a comment:


  • RoughRider
    replied
    SC,

    I choose enforcing the current immigration laws until a solution is in place. Believe me I realize we need major changes.
    Until then no American citizen should be forced to bare the burden when our government refuses to enforce its own laws.
    Last edited by RoughRider; 11-02-2006, 04:04 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by RoughRider
    "The residents should be demanding higher taxes on the businesses that directly benefit from undoncumented workers if it is really as bad as Stoner says it is."


    Brilliant, raise taxes, surtax's, excise tax's, Illegal alien tax's on Federal, State and local level.
    And why not? Then accept the fact that the businesses who benefit are getting a free ride on your back. This is a zero sum option. Either you pay, or someone else does? Take your pick.

    Leave a comment:


  • DennisTheMenace
    replied
    Originally posted by RoughRider
    "The residents should be demanding higher taxes on the businesses that directly benefit from undoncumented workers if it is really as bad as Stoner says it is."


    Brilliant, raise taxes, surtax's, excise tax's, Illegal alien tax's on Federal, State and local level.
    If the business men are benefiting, and their benefit is costing the community, some of that benefit should be used to alliviate the burden on the community. Pretty darn simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • RoughRider
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86
    And why isn't Cochise County demanding compensation from the Feds who refuse monitor the border? Or going after those who are caught employing illegals for a fine or surtax or whatever for compensation?

    Once again your target is misdirected.
    "The residents should be demanding higher taxes on the businesses that directly benefit from undoncumented workers if it is really as bad as Stoner says it is."


    Brilliant, raise taxes, surtax's, excise tax's, Illegal alien tax's on Federal, State and local level.

    Leave a comment:


  • DennisTheMenace
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptainS
    Apparantly you havnt been on the Arizona Border lately. I was posted on the border for 2 weeks in support of the BP. They have guys rotating from all the counrty to fill in the gaps, when the fill in finally learn the lay of the land bam the go back to their originall postings.

    The terrain dosnt work in your favor either. our area wasnt even close to being flat, tons of washes draws etc to get lost in.

    Also how are you going to be able to tell a horde (1-25 people) from a bunch of mules moving drugs, the Mexicn army protecting drugs, or what have you (in the dead of night)
    That is the POINT! If we get the visas to the workers they won't be trying to sneak across, they will be crossing at the check points, then if you see folks sneaking across, which we have the tools and resources to do, you know they are bad guys and know they are up to no go, not just trying to go pick berries. As you point out, the problem we have right now is man power, but that is only because of the numbers crossing away from the check points.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptainS
    replied
    Take care of number two on your list and number one will be much easier to do and will not require an expensive wall/fence. The Border Patrol currently has all the resources it would need to see, go after and stop any bad guy sneaking in IF they were not wasting time going after the hordes just looking for jobs to give them a better life.
    Apparantly you havnt been on the Arizona Border lately. I was posted on the border for 2 weeks in support of the BP. They have guys rotating from all the counrty to fill in the gaps, when the fill in finally learn the lay of the land bam the go back to their originall postings.

    The terrain dosnt work in your favor either. our area wasnt even close to being flat, tons of washes draws etc to get lost in.

    Also how are you going to be able to tell a horde (1-25 people) from a bunch of mules moving drugs, the Mexicn army protecting drugs, or what have you (in the dead of night)

    Leave a comment:


  • DennisTheMenace
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86
    It's much easier to blame the folks with no voice and no means to fight back.

    SStoner proves our points without even realizing it.
    It would be interesting to see his life under a microscope to see all of the benefit that he derives from undocumented labor.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    The residents should be demanding higher taxes on the businesses that directly benefit from undoncumented workers if it is really as bad as Stoner says it is.
    It's much easier to blame the folks with no voice and no means to fight back.

    SStoner proves our points without even realizing it.

    Leave a comment:

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