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  • #16
    I like the idea of building guard towers every mile and fitting them with a Barret .50 and tell the border agents to fire at will
    The Box. You opened it. We Came...

    "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

    Comment


    • #17
      Are you referring to criminals on our side of the border?
      I don't know if this is a rhetorical question, but I'll answer anyway.
      On our side of the border...yes...ALL crimes/criminals were tallied, except when they refer to the one's "apprehended at the border," I believe they are talking about illegal aliens arrested/caught at the border crossing rather than in the inner parts of the county.

      Comment


      • #18
        That magnificent Lady...that stands watch at the entrance to New York harbor..

        The New Colossus
        Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
        with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
        Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
        a mighty woman with a torch
        whose flame is imprisoned lightning,
        and her name Mother of Exiles.

        From her beacon-hand glows
        world-wide welcome;
        her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor
        that twin cities frame.
        "Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!"
        cries she with silent lips.

        "Give me your tired, your poor,
        Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
        The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
        Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
        I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


        Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)
        Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
        Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

        *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
        On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

        Comment


        • #19
          "Give me your tired, your poor,
          Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
          The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
          Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
          I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
          Unless, of course, they are brown and speak Spanish.

          I like the idea of building guard towers every mile and fitting them with a Barret .50 and tell the border agents to fire at will
          Who would you shoot first? The women? The children? Or, maybe just mow down entire families?
          I like the idea of you getting a frickin' clue.
          Member IACOJ

          Comment


          • #20
            ..........................
            Last edited by Nine3Probie; 07-28-2013, 06:12 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Nine3Probie
              How are you going to know which ones are named Will?
              In spanish, the name Will is Guillermo. And yes, JHR needs to get a frickin' clue.

              Hate to tell you this good buddy. But folks south of the border have guns as well. Whose in a better spot strategically? The one roaming the countryside being able to hide and conceal themselves in the native flora. Or the one posted in a stationary position 30' to 40' in the air.

              Since you're the gun nut, I'll let you decide.
              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

              Comment


              • #22
                Unless, of course, they are brown and speak Spanish.
                Is it possible for you to make a more ridiculous statement? If you want to imply that controlling our border is somehow a racial issue, give it a try. All you will accomplish is to show just how off-base you are.
                Controlling our border is not racist, nor should it be painted as such. It also has nothing to with stopping immigration, either. As citizens here, we are the ones with rights, not those who are breaking the law by entering this country illegally.

                We need to stop the ‘fence-jumping’ that is taking place, especially in light of our buddy Hugo Chavez training Arabs to ‘act-latino’. We should work towards changing the laws on work visas in this country, and make it easier for immigrants, particularly blue-collar types to gain entry, if they wish. However, we should know who they are, where they are, where they are working, and what their intentions are when they choose to work in our Nation.
                There is nothing racist about that position, except for the people that attempt to portray it as such.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jasper45
                  We should work towards changing the laws on work visas in this country, and make it easier for immigrants, particularly blue-collar types to gain entry, if they wish. However, we should know who they are, where they are, where they are working, and what their intentions are when they choose to work in our Nation.
                  Woww Jasper. I agree with you completely. Given how there is demand for a supply of unskilled labor that is a better solution. If the individuals in question are put into the system they can better be tracked to pay taxes etc. The only ones without any official documentation would be the criminal since those wishing to work and be productive would have no reason to not get a visa.
                  I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jasper45
                    Is it possible for you to make a more ridiculous statement? If you want to imply that controlling our border is somehow a racial issue, give it a try. All you will accomplish is to show just how off-base you are.
                    Controlling our border is not racist, nor should it be painted as such. It also has nothing to with stopping immigration, either. As citizens here, we are the ones with rights, not those who are breaking the law by entering this country illegally.

                    We need to stop the ‘fence-jumping’ that is taking place, especially in light of our buddy Hugo Chavez training Arabs to ‘act-latino’. We should work towards changing the laws on work visas in this country, and make it easier for immigrants, particularly blue-collar types to gain entry, if they wish. However, we should know who they are, where they are, where they are working, and what their intentions are when they choose to work in our Nation.
                    There is nothing racist about that position, except for the people that attempt to portray it as such.
                    Great post jasper!

                    Nozzleman's post is a classic example of trying to respond based on emotion, rather than logic.
                    Tom Warshaw
                    Station 13 (Bethel)
                    Sumter Fire Department

                    "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

                    September 11, 2001. We Must Never Forget.

                    In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY


                    All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the opinions of my department or any organization I may belong to.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Who would you shoot first? The women? The children? Or, maybe just mow down entire families?
                      Easy... you just dont lead'em as much....



                      The whole concept was meant to be a joke.

                      If they build a wall across the border... where are they going to get the cheap labor to build it?
                      Last edited by JHR1985; 10-28-2006, 06:28 PM.
                      The Box. You opened it. We Came...

                      "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by scfire86
                        Part of the problem with illegal immigration is the unwillingness to rethink NAFTA. When NAFTA was passed econ experts on both sides of the border realized that agriculture jobs would be lost in Mexico due to the competition being tilted in the favor of US farmers who compete advantageosly because of crop subsidies.
                        Isn't one of the unplanned side effects of NAFTA the loss of jobs in Mexico to the even poorer countrys to its south? I thought I read somewhere that a lot of the work that used to be done in Mexico was now going to Guatamala, El Salvidore..etc. Afraid I don't have a source, just thought I heard it somewhere.
                        So you call this your free country
                        Tell me why it costs so much to live
                        -3dd

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Well, some interestings posts here indeed.

                          I bet those of you such as the the nozzle commie lived here in Tucson you would understand the strain illegal immigration places on the state system here.

                          The people here are sick of it and you can tell by reading this story

                          I love the comment by Lorraine Lee who is the vice president of Chicanos Por La Casa here in Tucson...

                          You are moving up and you have all these forces dragging us down," said Lee, who added that the media coverage of anti-illegal immigrant groups is disproportionate. "We don't look as dramatic as the Minutemen standing with cowboy hats and their boots in the desert."
                          I think its a sad day when we have to pass a law saying the official language is English in Arizona. You go in to a store and the hispanic employees who barley speak english are offended you dont know spanish!

                          Having worked both LE and EMS I have seen abuses of the state and federal systems. Nothing like having illegal aliens driving new Hummer H2's and getting food stamps. You figure that one out.

                          Dont get me wrong...having lived here for over 20 years I love the hispanic flavor of Tucson. Not all of those who try to cross the border are bad, but there are fewer of the good honest folks it seems.

                          And scfire86....the only ones with guns on the south side of the border are the bad ones. You dont see the hard working families toting guns over the border.

                          I understand the closest thing to "mexican" you have probably been next to was your neighborhood Taco Bell with all white kids working there.

                          I have no problem with immigration as long as its "legal".
                          Warm Regards,
                          Shawn Stoner
                          EMT-B

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ThNozzleman
                            Unless, of course, they are brown and speak Spanish.
                            I love this pathetic argument from people, usually of liberal so holier than thou attitude.


                            They offer no proof, only the argument that we only want to put up a wall against the Southern border to stop immigration - forgetting the whole "illegal" part of the subject. Now we have the new catchphrase and we are supposed to call these criminals (for that is what one is when they violate the law - but how dare I introduce facts into the case!) "Undocumented Workers."

                            However, most people against illegal immigration are against it for anyone. You row across the Carribean from Hispaniola or Cuba, come in a container ship from China, Viet Nam, or Africa you ought to go back.

                            And these farmers ought to pay a wage. You hear all of this stuff about "Jobs Americans don't want to do" which is total horse crap. Pay a responsible wage and you will. Stop subsidizing crops as SC mentioned and get rid of the socialization of our nation and things will improve (somewhat.)

                            I am sick of being called a racist by people who know no better, and never offer anything up as evidence. As proof, check out the incident at Columbia in NYC 3 weeks ago. Those against illegal immigration were drowned out of their opportunity to voice their opinion by the same holier-than-thou, self righteous Socialist mentality we have continue to see.

                            Liberalism's idea of free speech is simple: Say anything you want so long as it does not go against the grain of what we want, and no one is ever offended.

                            I shall speak my mind. Don't like it? Too freaking bad. Life is full of disappointment. You want to call me racist? Fine. Just know that it shows your complete lack of knowledge and inability to rest the facts, not your emotion and own hatred.
                            "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                            The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                            "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                            "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                            www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by voyager9
                              Isn't one of the unplanned side effects of NAFTA the loss of jobs in Mexico to the even poorer countrys to its south? I thought I read somewhere that a lot of the work that used to be done in Mexico was now going to Guatamala, El Salvidore..etc. Afraid I don't have a source, just thought I heard it somewhere.
                              This was an article in the LA Times written sometime back. It was the source of my earlier post.



                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...1,700223.story

                              From the Los Angeles Times
                              NEWS ANALYSIS
                              Placing Blame for Mexico's Ills
                              The economic policies of the U.S. are at the heart of Sunday's presidential contest.
                              By Marla Dickerson
                              Times Staff Writer

                              July 1, 2006

                              TLACHINOLA, Mexico — Francisco Herrera Sanchez is not an economics expert and knows little about globalization. But the octogenarian says he knows that something has gone terribly wrong with U.S.-backed trade policies that were supposed to lift millions of Mexicans from poverty.

                              He has seen hundreds of residents flee this farming community for the United States since 1994, when the North American Free Trade Agreement began opening Mexico's markets to more low-cost U.S. agricultural products. He feels his neighbors' absence in the meager receipts at his tiny grocery in this hamlet about 3 1/2 hours southeast of the capital. "The riches are up there," said the 85-year-old widower, referring to the U.S. Here "there is nothing, not even music. Just silence, like a dead man hanging."

                              Many Americans are angry that as many as 12 million illegal immigrants, mostly Mexican, are living in the U.S., driven by lack of opportunities at home. Critics are demanding that Mexico right its stumbling economy, create jobs for its people and end its de facto development strategy of shipping its problems north of the border.

                              But some experts say U.S. economic policies have played a role in fueling the mass exodus. Pushed hard by the United States, Mexico began embracing the Washington-backed prescription of privatization, free trade and government austerity in the early 1980s. A quarter of a century later, the results are decidedly mixed and are the heart of Sunday's cliffhanger presidential election in Mexico.

                              The contest pits leftist Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who wants to boost social spending and rethink the NAFTA relationship, against conservative Felipe Calderon, who wants to maintain Mexico's policy on free trade and open the country's state-controlled energy sector to private investment. Their divergent views reflect the soaring achievements and bitter disappointments that have accompanied Mexico's economic restructuring.

                              Strict fiscal and monetary discipline has helped Mexico rise Lazarus-like from its devastating 1994 peso devaluation. Inflation is tame. Interest rates are relatively low. The government's books are balanced, and Mexico's debt is rated investment grade. It was a stunning comeback for a nation that had a history of lurching from one financial crisis to another.

                              "It's stability," said President Vicente Fox in an interview this year. "This is a big, big change in Mexico."

                              Yet the so-called Washington consensus has done little to spur economic growth, reduce income disparity, create jobs and stem migration to the U.S.

                              Consider the landmark NAFTA agreement.

                              Proponents point to the nearly threefold leap in trade between the United States and Mexico as proof of the pact's success. NAFTA has vaulted Mexico into Latin America's premier exporter and given it a fat trade surplus with the United States. Yet the agreement has yielded little in the way of net job creation or in helping to build the vibrant Mexican middle class that supporters promised.

                              U.S. and Mexican officials touted the deal as a way to stanch the flow of illegal immigrants by creating jobs in Mexico. The tide of undocumented Mexicans in the U.S. surged after the pact was implemented. Fully two-thirds of undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States have been there 10 years or less, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.

                              Many of those people are Mexicans from hard-hit rural areas, the predictable casualties, NAFTA critics say, of a trade deal that forced Mexico to wrench open its farm sector without a viable transition strategy for millions of subsistence farmers.

                              Adjusted for inflation, Mexico's growth in gross domestic product has been flat for more than two decades. The cost to Mexico's people for this dismal performance is staggering. If Mexico's economy had grown at the same pace from 1980 to the present as it did in the period from 1960 to 1980, today it would have the same standard of living as Spain, said economist Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic Policy and Research in Washington. Instead, nearly half of Mexico's 106 million people live in poverty.

                              "It's hard to reduce poverty and create employment when you don't have growth," Weisbrot said. "To have 25 years of this rotten economic performance, you'd have to conclude something is wrong."

                              Some analysts contend that Mexico simply hasn't moved far enough and fast enough down the free-market path, while botching earlier reforms. Privatizations such as the 1990 sale of the state-owned telephone company essentially replaced public monopolies with private ones. Mexico's inefficient state-owned energy companies are harming its competitiveness. Red tape and corruption are strangling innovation.

                              But Weisbrot and others contend that some free-market policies simply haven't delivered and are contributing to the immigration friction that has become a major sore point in U.S.-Mexico relations.

                              Economists point to a host of demographic, cultural and economic factors fueling the mass migration. But many agree that NAFTA accelerated the decades-long exodus of Mexicans from the countryside by opening the nation's markets wider to subsidized U.S. agriculture products.

                              Mexico has shed nearly 30% of its farm jobs since the trade pact went into effect, according to government statistics. That translates into 2.8 million farmers and millions more of their dependents fleeing their fields. Some have taken subsistence jobs in Mexico's cities, but many have relocated to the U.S.

                              Not far from Tlachinola, brothers Valente and Francisco Aguilar yoked a team of black-and-white oxen to a scarred wooden plow on a recent hot morning to till a field of spindly corn. The men worked for years in construction and other jobs in the U.S., returning to Mexico to care for their aging parents. Their six siblings are still up north, in Nevada and New York, and are unlikely ever to come back.

                              The brothers say poor Mexicans have a right to take jobs in the U.S. because policymakers on both sides of the border appear to have abandoned them to their fate.

                              "Neither government cares about us," said Francisco, who earns about $8.75 for a 12-hour day busting sod for a local landowner.

                              NAFTA experts say negotiators from Mexico and the U.S. knew that rural families like the Aguilars would be hard hit by the trade deal. The bet was that many of them would find work in Mexico's burgeoning maquiladora export factories. But there too NAFTA has fallen short.

                              Mexico has lost more than four times as many farm jobs over the last 12 years as it gained in export manufacturing positions, in part because of relentless competition from China.

                              Economist Jeff Faux, author of a new book on globalization, said the current focus of the U.S. Congress on tougher border enforcement ignored the root economic causes pushing migrants north. He said talk of fences, guest worker programs and Mexican government ineptitude diverted attention from U.S.-backed policies such as NAFTA that have helped create the very flood of illegal immigrants that many Americans are now decrying.

                              "It's really unconscionable that there is no discussion of the American fingerprints on this," said Faux, founding president of the Washington-based Economic Policy Institute and author of "The Global Class War." "There is a lot of winking and nodding going on … because it's their business constituents that supported [NAFTA] and that are enjoying the benefits" of low-wage immigrant labor.

                              Around Latin America, countries are loosening their embrace of free-market policies and institutions as left-of-center leaders have come to power. Argentina, which has sparred repeatedly with the Washington-based International Monetary Fund after its 2001 financial crisis, has emerged from the largest sovereign debt default in history with economic growth rates topping 9%. Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia have moved to exert greater state control over energy resources to devote more funding to social spending. Privatization of public utilities such as water has fallen out of favor. And a U.S.-led push for a hemispherewide trade agreement has gone nowhere.

                              Given that climate, some political analysts say the time might be right for Mexico to push back against its largest trading partner and demand protections for key domestic industries such as farming that still generate a lot of employment in Mexico.

                              Mexico's agriculture minister last month pleaded with the U.S. and Canada to allow the country to keep import restrictions on corn and beans, which are scheduled under NAFTA to come off in 2008. Mexican farm groups have warned that the end of protections would send millions more rural dwellers toward the border. The U.S. quickly rejected the proposal.

                              But Lopez Obrador, who holds a slight lead in opinion polls, has declared that he wouldn't honor Mexico's NAFTA commitment to eliminate barriers on corn and beans if he were elected. In fact, his chief economic advisor, Rogelio Ramirez de la O, told Reuters last month that a Lopez Obrador administration would seek a full review of the agreement, particularly the agricultural component.

                              "We think that this is high time for a due diligence on NAFTA … ," Ramirez de la O said. "We have to recognize where things have not worked out."

                              That kind of talk has U.S. trade officials and farmers chafing. But given Americans' rising fury over illegal immigration, Pamela Starr, Latin America analyst for Washington-based Eurasia Group, said it was time for the United States "to get real" with its trade and immigration policies toward Mexico. She said it was disingenuous and unfair for the U.S. to protect its own farmers with fat subsidies while demanding that small Mexican growers compete with them head-to-head.

                              "An essential part of any migration program designed to reduce the flow [of illegal immigrants] needs to have U.S. efforts to help Mexico develop its own economy," Starr said. "The U.S. has two options. It can import Mexican goods or it can import Mexican workers."


                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Special correspondent Sarah Meghan Lee contributed to this report.




                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times
                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SSTONER
                                I understand the closest thing to "mexican" you have probably been next to was your neighborhood Taco Bell with all white kids working there.

                                I have no problem with immigration as long as its "legal".
                                That and the fact my daughter married a man of Mexican ancestry. I'll say one thing. My son-in-law's family sure knows how to party. It was one of the best weddings I ever attended.
                                Last edited by scfire86; 10-29-2006, 05:04 PM.
                                I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                                Comment

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