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  • Army making Boot Camp easier

    Anyone else catch this news story? Not that I served time in the military and I have the utmost RESPECT for those who do, but I would *assume* that there would be a fair amount of yelling (wait.. I mean "command voice"), etc. during combat. And the fact that new recruits are allowed to use their cellphone to call home at any time during Boot Camp... I hope this isn't the start of some sort of new trend in order to meet a "quota."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv84yS_RaQM
    Last edited by FTMPTB15; 09-23-2006, 02:16 PM. Reason: link correction
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

  • #2
    I have never been in the military either but I don't understand why in the world the Armed Services or the Fire Service is making their accademies easier. I think it is a load of crap. Yes, the purpose of the training schools is to teach, but at the same time it is also used to weed out those that can't make or don't want it bad enough. What we are ending up with is a bunch of FF's that act like little school girls ( sorry for the sisters on here). If they can't cut it then I don't want them around. These training schools also teach them respect and pride for themselves and for the military/fire service that they are entering.
    Real men wear kilts. www.forourfallen.org

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    • #3
      Well, that was interesting ...

      I don't have much experience with any branch in the Army other than the Infantry. I'd be surprised if that type of basic training has made its way to Ft. Benning. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that it hasn't. One thing is for sure though, what they don't get in Basic, believe me, they will get it in their unit. That just means junior leaders have to work a little harder to build the right team. But, whatever happens, there is no kinder, gentler combat. Don't worry. They'll figure something out. NCO's are great that way.

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      • #4
        Basic has been softening forever. When I took Basic in the CF back in the late 80's, we were one of the new classes with the softer rules regarding discipline, and shouting, and physical training. Coming from a cadet system, it drove me nuts to find out I was yelled as more and worked harder as a 16-18 year old cadet than a 19 year old "Adult" soldier. Thankfully my NCO's thought similarly, and they compensated very well for the new rules ensuring we were the sharpest/toughest/fittest of the new class.

        After I was in for a few years, I saw the same thing taken one step further with the next few classes. Today, it is hardly a shadow of it's former self.

        I think that there were always a few places where it could be improved to make it an easier way of life, especially for the family man. I fear though, that softening it too much fails to harden the soldier adequately and possibly even increases the rates of CISD and PTSD down the road. I guess we'll see in the future.
        Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

        IACOJ

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GFDLT1
          I have never been in the military either but I don't understand why in the world the Armed Services or the Fire Service is making their accademies easier. I think it is a load of crap. Yes, the purpose of the training schools is to teach, but at the same time it is also used to weed out those that can't make or don't want it bad enough. What we are ending up with is a bunch of FF's that act like little school girls ( sorry for the sisters on here). If they can't cut it then I don't want them around. These training schools also teach them respect and pride for themselves and for the military/fire service that they are entering.
          It happens because different generations respond differently. Not to mention the "Moms of America" (as my Drill Instructors referred to them) wince at the thought of their baby being yelled at or slapped around.

          While I am not for a large amount of abuse, I see nothing wrong with an occasional and appropriate "Laying on of hands" to correct someone out of line.

          The reason being, some useless scumbag terrorist pr!ck isn't going to care about what is right or wrong, and they damned sure are not going to give rats @$$ about the almighty Geneva Conventions either. These 18 or 20 year old kids need as much training, in the harshest and most rapid possible manner.

          Then again, I am just an anachronistic former Marine. (Quite proudly so I might add )
          "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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          • #6
            Too bad that the military boot camps aren't like they where in the 1950"s and 60's where the drill istructor was GOD and the boot was just a boot. Then boosts didn't ask the questions,the drill instructor did. The boot now days can whine and moan and the instructors will wipe their little noses or call their mommies to do that for them. They live in air condition quarters and have nice mess hall and other facilties to use. Unlike back 40 to 50 years ago we lived in barracks that only had windows to raise for the breeze to come in, that was out air condition. Drill instructors that yelled at the top of thier lungs so that the boot could hear them and knew what they were saying.

            Guys that came up throught that type of military training made outstanding Firefighters and Officers as they knew how to take orders without questioning the man that gave that order.
            OUTSTANDING

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            • #7
              F8cking disgrace...I certainly don't feel any safer knowing these liberal prima donnas like Sgt. Melanie are defending me and my family.

              I'm going to let my elected reps know what I think of this...

              FTM-PTB

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              • #8
                I posted this on another thread, so I'll do it again here.

                And given how our men and women in uniform have shown themselves to be exemplary in two theaters of operation I have no less faith in their ability to do their duty and do it well.

                In 1775, Congress decided to establish the Marine Corps. Tasking the first Commandant to recruit able bodied men to be Marines for the express purpose of being boarding and shore landing parties for naval vessels.

                So the Commandant goes to Tun Tavern and sees two drunks at the bar. He approaches them and asks if they would like to join the Marine Corps. The drunks inquire about the functions of being Marines. Upon being informed they refuse. So they continue drinking till they pass out. The Commandant seizes the opportunity to haul them off and throw them into the brig of a nearby Navy ship moored in Philadelphia harbor.

                The next night the two drunks are sitting shackled on the deck of the ship when they see the Commandant hauling two more drunks up the gangplank. One of the shackled drunks looks at the other and says,

                "It sure isn't like the old Corps."


                Point being. Every generation says they had it harder than the one succeeding it. Our newer guys are just as capable and just as committed as any other. And now that the job actually pays fairly well we are attracting a lot of folks with advanced degrees. We're also getting folks from the military who have had command experience at both the NCO and Officer levels. Despite the accusations of Gen Xer's being slackers I haven't seen it.
                They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

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                • #9
                  Scfire, I catch your point to ... a point. However as a current serving member of the Canadian army, I have a bit of a small disagreement. Essentially you are correct about two things, generational differences and that "back in my day things were different". My disagreement comes with something that came out in the other posts about nose wiping and snivelling. Of course I can not speak for any other armed services beyond Canada and this is what I do know:

                  1) we are a much "kinder gentler" army now that is very In Touch with its feelings. For this I mean that instructors are now no longer allowed to swear at, yell or or otherwise "forcefully" encourage recruits in a verbal or physical manner beyond "Ok little Johnny, just try a little harder. I know you can do it."

                  2) if such verbal or physical "abuse" should be engaged, the recruit has two options (and will likely exercise both) a) to tell the instructor that is "inappropriate" and or b) sumit a written report to the next senior who will then deal with the instructor.

                  3) from personal observation, the above "soldiers" who come out of recruit school are whinny snivelling butt wipers - BUT not all of them are like that. I have had privilage to work with some very excellent new "kids" and those persons will do well, if they stick to it. That being said, they are likely to be the first to realize they can do better somewhere else and will take an early release, which will be the loss of the armed forces.

                  My Recruit class was one of the first to get the "new style" training. Actually more to accuracy, we were one of three test subject groups. The group ahead of us was treated with the 'normal' methods of training. We, the middle group were given what was considered typical polite respect and civil consideration. Much the way Mom and Dad would treat a teenager. (thats the best description I can give) The follow on group..... got their collective BUTTS CHEWED. Out of a class that started with 130 recruits, only 65 actually graduated.... Those kids were screamed at if they blinked out sequence (ok maybe not quite that bad, but you get the point)

                  Sadly, that is the way of things. And yes, I agree everyone of us will say something to the effect of "Well back when I was.... the snow was this [..............] deep and we walked up hill both ways in a blizzard with no shoes...." The trick is for us older folks to either get on with the program and change, adapt, improvise and overcome (as best we can) or move on to something else. Which is why I look forward to crossing my 20th year of service (next summer) and making the down slide to my 25th...... its just about time to move on, I think.
                  If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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                  • #10
                    One memory from Navy Basic at Great Lakes was my Chief hollering that if he ever saw me in the Fleet,he was gonna kick my axe.
                    So,of course three years later,we meet up in Norfolk and while he didn't invite me over to the house for supper and to meet his newly 18 y/o daughter,he didn't kick my axe,either.
                    Nowadays,I guess someone would be able to have him court martialled for even thinking he was able to do that.Back then,I wasn't about to call his bluff.The guy was 6'2" to my 5'8".

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                    • #11
                      Funny, Army basic is getting easier, and Air Force basic is getting harder. That's something I never thought I'd see.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Plattsfire2
                        Funny, Army basic is getting easier, and Air Force basic is getting harder. That's something I never thought I'd see.
                        That only happened because the AF couldn't get any easier.

                        You know the difference between the "old Corps" and the "new Corps"?

                        The new Corps started the day after you graduated from boot camp.

                        I thought we were letting things get too easy as well-but the award citations and after action reports say different. The troops in harm's way are doing a helluva job.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gunnyv
                          I thought we were letting things get too easy as well-but the award citations and after action reports say different. The troops in harm's way are doing a helluva job.
                          Couldn't agree with you more. And despite the jackholes like these guys who are sucking it up at the DoD trough our men and women in uniform are doing us proud in very difficult times.
                          They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

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