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  • No Show, No Go?

    If you do not show up for any training, should you be allowed to operate the apparatus (S), when there is a fire? That is the question within my dept...I have been with my dept for the last 10 long years. We are paid on call. We have (on the roster 18 firefighters). I have the glorious position as Capt, and Training Officer. We have had an on going problem with no shows to trainings, which are every other week, Mon, from 7-9 pm. We have about 165 calls a year. I have only a few firefighters that simply do not show up for training. We simply cannot come up with a solution to solve this. We offer a training bonus, if you get the reqired hours, you get an extra 500 a year. We are paid on call, and officers are salary. But the chief is worried that if he is too hard on the ones that do not show for training, but they do show for fires, he is afraid that they will quit, and it is hard to come up with new people. Any suggestions? By the way, I have all my hours! I 'am a firm beliver in training, I have FFI and FFII, and hold an AAS in Fire Science. (my expense). Also, I reside in Michigan....
    Last edited by ffgpk324; 07-11-2006, 07:49 PM.

  • #2
    Let's see:
    They don't show up for training, but they show up for fires?
    If they don't train, then how effective can they be at a fire? A vehicle wreck?
    A building or trench collapse?
    How can they operate the controls of an apparatus?
    How can they recognize when conditions are deteriorating?
    Who will be the future officers of your department and how will THEY train future members?
    Chief doesn't want to lose them because they go to fires?
    Here's a news flash; he may LOSE them in ways that are horrific, regrettable and totally preventable.
    Cut the dead weight, get lean and mean and new members who WANT to train will join up.
    Sometimes, the tough decisions have to be made. The chief doesn't have to make them alone. I always used the input from every officer when making decisions on personnel, training and the direction of the department(morale).
    Ask yourself this: is your community getting what they are paying for?
    And is your department violating their own SOGs on training?
    If so, then you need to get busy.
    Of course; this is just my opinion.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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    • #3
      Exactly what CR said.

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      • #4
        You as a paid officer carry a legal liability by continuing to allow untrained firefighters to operate on a fire ground. As long as no one gets hurt everythings alright. The moment these guys hurt themselves or worse yet someone else your world is going to turn to crap.

        Cut the guys loose and move on.

        Most people like to be a part of a strong and proud organization. And that starts at the top with the officers. I would rather have have a half a dozen dedicated firefighters than a bunch of guys who do it half assed.

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        • #5
          Make new sets of company bi-laws that require active members to do so much training a year and if not then there certain privileges are revoked. Then its not anyone’s fault but there own.
          ******=================
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          ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

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          • #6
            Try having a couple training nights later in the week on your off weeks, see if you can't get some of dead wood to show up. If you can, maybe it's time to reschedual training.

            I understand that training is important, but are the guys that are missing just hanging out at home or do they had legit reasons for not there.

            Consider this...
            I know guys that put family first, and in my opinion, that's the way it should be. If your boy has a baseball game on Monday night, I would expect to see you at his game. But if the kid had a game every Monday night, why not break away for training every once in a while. The only reason why I could see somebody not making any training (especially during the summer) is if they were a coach for a team. Now, I made this "for instance" apply to summer baseball because it is that way it is for some guys I know, but you can apply it accordingly.

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            • #7
              My old department trains twice a month,first and third Mondays,excepting holidays which are rescheduled,and we still have about 10 members that rarely show up because of other commitments.They do show up when the can and I would hope that they find some way like going to other departments and getting a yellow training verification sheet to bring back for their records.
              Chief would also put on a feed before training theorizing"If I feed them,they will come".Other departments that come because we have meth lab training or other interesting training going are surprised to see how many people show and how well we set things up in case we get tapped out during meal or training.
              It all boils down to the people who join a vollie department.Those that want to do it for real will show and those that just want bragging rights will drop out or be dropped when they find out it's more than wearing a shirt and carrying a pager.Once in a while,people expect to see you spraying water on a fire,rolling hose or rendering EMT assistance to a wreck victim.

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              • #8
                We are an all volly dept and our SOGs state that if we do not make at least 8 hours of training per month we are moved to inactive status. Now if there is a good reason that you cannot attend training (i.e. taking classes, out of town, etc) and a chief officer approves it, you can remain on active status. As vollies we don't get as much hands on as the paid fire fighters do so we have to rely on training to remain effective. You know the old saying "failure to train is training to fail". Or something like that.

                PKFPD
                IACOJ and proud of it


                Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.

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                • #9
                  I agree, and I have offered many, MANY make up training nights, days, and used my weekends from my family to give THEM the oppurtunity to get required hours.....And no, they are at home, you know hard day at the office.......

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ffgpk324
                    I agree, and I have offered many, MANY make up training nights, days, and used my weekends from my family to give THEM the oppurtunity to get required hours.....And no, they are at home, you know hard day at the office.......
                    If you've given them alternatives to the regular training nights and they still refuse to train, you must cut them from the rolls. If you can effectively fight fires and handle other emergencies without attending training, that must mean your training is meaningless. If you consider your training essential to being able to perform the job... then you must require a certain attendance percentage.

                    Interestingly enough, the volunteer division in our department has the opposite problem of yours. We have volunteers who attend every training meeting but will not respond to a call.
                    Last edited by cozmosis; 07-13-2006, 12:56 PM.
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