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This is one question I really need a truthful answer to....

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  • #31
    Look, I wasn't there. But my friends WERE! I took offence to your comment that their emotions are "misguided". How dare you question people's feelings about that day.

    My post was intended SOLELY to encourage a friend, who was obviously EXTREMELY UPSET, to walk away in order to spare him more pain.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ThNozzleman

      Post all the frownie faces you want. This type of reaction is what I was talking about in the first place. Rational, reasonable approaches to problems and questions like these, such as E229Lt has posted, are the answer.
      Having met the Lt of E229 personally and established what I would consider a friendship with him and his wife I knew he would be able to post a rational post. Had this topic been brought up approximately a year and a half ago, I think you would have gotten an entirely different response. I will agree with many of the posters here and say that any amount of reason or logic is not going to change the opinion of these people. I quote the phrase "Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one". And finally to quote MCaldwells signature "Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!" It seems to point out the futility of attempting debate. Lets just let this one slip away quietly.
      Shawn M. Cecula
      Firefighter
      IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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      • #33
        I Apologize

        I truely want to apologize from the bottom of my heart for dredging up old heartaches on this subject.

        I'd had enough of reading the crap they were posting on that site, reading while kicking back with a cold refreshing beverage, and I guess the beverage got the best of me.........and I came here.

        E229Lt, thank you for your response.

        Again, I'm sorry and hope you all can forgive me.

        Mike

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        • #34
          If you really are in the fire service, feel free to check out the other threads on these forums and participate in the discussions here. I warn you though, if you come off as arrogant or holier than thou, you will get smacked for it.

          Just a suggestion: delete this thread. Just go to your first post in this thread and go to edit and delete it. Make this mess go away and move forward. There is a lot of knowledge and expierience here, take advantage and learn from them.
          I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
          "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

          "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

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          • #35
            very nicely put Lt.229.

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            • #36
              229,I echo in saying well said.

              Side note: The WTC designed to resist a Boeing707 low on fuel,flaps down,IAS a maximum of 120 knots,on a foggy day makeing a landing. Not a fully fueled 757,full throttle,heavy aircraft with a IAS of 300-375 knots being used as a missle.
              I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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              • #37
                You need a truthful answer to this question?
                Artie offers you as close to that as you will ever get.
                But you have to process the info; you have to decide.
                Conspiracy theories sell books. They are so outlandish, that they won't even make it into Ripley's Believe It or Not!
                These acts of 9/11 were a conspiracy; a conspiracy of godless, gutless, radical terrorists who would stop at NOTHING to destroy our way of life. It was designed to send a message to the weak ones that they are next. They did not expect the Hell handed them by our military and the strength and resolve of the American people.
                For every catastrophic event, there will always be a clash of "theories", but they will never be enough to refute the "facts". And the facts are that there was no one inside; our government was not involved. Our bureaucracy is so broad and fractured that an effort that you speak of could only come off in a John Grisham novel.
                All in all, the debate remained civil, despite the emotional depth of the subject.
                Some will never get over the events of 9/11, because they can't understand how another human could hate so deeply as to perpetrate an event such as 9/11. A government by the people and for the people could not be a party to something such as this. I truly believe that in my heart. WE are our country's conscience.
                We live in the greatest country in the world. We would not bring such despair and destruction to our own.
                God bless us.
                CR
                Visit www.iacoj.com
                Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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                • #38
                  AMEN!
                  Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                  In memory of
                  Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                  Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                  IACOJ Budget Analyst

                  I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                  www.gdvfd18.com

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                  • #39
                    Look, I wasn't there. But my friends WERE! I took offence to your comment that their emotions are "misguided". How dare you question people's feelings about that day.
                    How dare I what?? I'm not questioning ANYONE'S feelings about "that day." However, I'm tired of any discussion about "that day" being turned into a emotional diatribe with no real discussion ever taking place about the things that happened there. If people have questions or comments about "that day," then we should confront them rationally and not blast them out of the water immediately. The World Trade Center attack was a terrible tragedy, but we should not refuse to discuss it and lose the chance to learn from it.
                    Member IACOJ

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                    • #40
                      I will agree with many of the posters here and say that any amount of reason or logic is not going to change the opinion of these people.
                      Perhaps not. But we MIGHT be able to sway the opinions and reasoning of others who may be naive enough to believe these conspiracy fans and their unfounded beliefs. How many of us went through a great part of our lives believing something that we later found out was not true? Who do we have to thank for setting us on the right path? What if they hadn't? If we, as educated firefighters, do not take the time to fight for the truth, then what do we have time for?
                      Member IACOJ

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                      • #41
                        Tried to delete........

                        This is the first I've been able to get back here. I tried to make this mess go away as suggested, but it wouldn't let me do it. If the moderators want to delete this thread, please do.

                        Thank You
                        Mike

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