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This is one question I really need a truthful answer to....

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  • #16
    Edited only because they are not worth the space on these forums. I am putting them both on my ignore list.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by 1835Wayne; 10-22-2003, 09:43 PM.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

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    • #17
      WT do what you want with me posting this but these people need to pull their heads out of their ***e$ and relize that they are wrong and dumb as all hell!
      Last edited by Quigger; 10-22-2003, 08:04 PM.

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      • #18
        Thanks for the welcome

        Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
        First of all, Jesus IS coming, we just don't know when.

        Secondly, these are classic "Conspiracy Theory" types. You will find similar "theories" about such events as JFK's assassination (the man on the street with the umbrella) and the OK City bombing (black helicopters hovering over the Murrah building minutes before the bomb exploded).

        Their argument was getting boring on the other website, so they came here to cause trouble. All one has to do is watch the way our government operates. It is a bingling bueracracy, with way too many people involved in even the most routine of decisions. The sheer number of people it would have taken to pull this "caper" off is staggering. Do you think that one of those people wouldn't have gone to CNN or ABC? Do you think that there are that many people with such a warped sense of right and wrong that they would have thought that blowing up buildings with 25,000 people in them was the right thing to do for the United States?

        The people who put forth these types of fairy tales are acutely anti-government. They are also probably silly children ("...you ave a way cool site here") My hope would be that the reception that these two people recieve is enough to drive them back to their hole.

        GOD BLESS AMERICa!


        Well, I have to say I NEVER thought I would get a welcome like this.

        Between my Dad (30 yrs),uncle (40 yrs), brother (20yrs), and myself (15 yrs), we have a total of over 100 years of volunteer firefighting service. I don't know what you think of "little" departments, but I have always admired career firefighters and have a great deal of respect for them. I also believe in giving back to the community you live in, which is why I have been involved in firefighting one way or another since I was a little kid hanging out and helping wash hose, trucks, cleaning the house, you name it, I've probably done it at one time or another. I have quite a few friends who are career firefighters and pray for their safety every day same as I pray for the safety for all safety service personnel.

        I didn't come here to start **** with anyone. I was tired of reading all the bull**** that these so called experts are putting out there. I don't even post at that board and have only just started reading that thread about a month ago. I was hoping someone would try and set the record straight with these people. They don't seem to have any common sense.

        And George, I'm not a silly little child! If you think for one minute that I believe the government was involved with this maybe you ought to rethink the way you look at people, especially newbies to a forum.
        There seems to be a George in every house.

        Thanks
        Mize

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        • #19
          Whatever.
          There seems to be a George in every house.
          If they are lucky.
          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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          • #20
            All you have to do is look at the homepage of that website. of course I may just be being controled by the govenment chemicals they are talking about.

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            • #21
              Mize,

              You posted a link and asked firefighters from the WTC to get pulled into a discussion that could send them over the edge. You and your 100 years of background should have more respect for your brothers well being.

              Nobody will set these idiots straight.

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              • #22
                There is nothing wrong with debating this issue. Mize76, you have to realize that 911 is a sensitive issue on these forums, and many of the members here will initially post with misguided emotion, instead of being rational. I took the time to check the forums you were talking about, and the sites posted there. I think it is important that educated people in the fire service challenge the ideas of the people who believe that the towers could not have collapsed from the heat generated by the fires. If we do not, we run the risk of these people making lasting impressions on the public, which only serve to hurt us in the end. Much like the ideas supported by the building industry when it comes to truss construction and sprinkler systems in buildings. I will also state that is good to question our government, because it is run by people; people who may engage in questionable or unethical activities and should be watched. Living in the post-Watergate era, I can't believe anyone would seriously object to this.
                Member IACOJ

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                • #23
                  misguided emotion,


                  Just walk away, Artie
                  September 11th - Never Forget

                  I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

                  Sheri
                  IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
                  Honorary Flatlander

                  RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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                  • #24
                    It doesn't matter who posts there or what their credentials are, these people will believe only what they want to. There are numerous articles in engineering magazines, TV programs, and other sources that explain in detail what happened to those buildings if they choose to read it. They don't want to because it runs counter to their world view. Nothing you, Mize, or any of us say to them will change it.
                    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
                    Structures Specialist, MD-TF 1

                    These statements are mine and mine alone
                    I.A.C.O.J. Building crust and proud of it

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                    • #25
                      Those guys are knuckleheads....

                      Hey, they still blame Pearl Harbor on FDR don't they?

                      Fortunately we know better.....
                      "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

                      --Thornton Wilder

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                      • #26
                        Since you folks from the other side are reading this thread now, let me clear up a few items:


                        shatoga:

                        Sure I'll believe a Firechief stood in a raging inferno and claimed he saw only two pockets of fire.

                        When pigs fly!
                        Boomer Chick:

                        they mentioned hearing explosions
                        I have the recordings of the fireground radio communications. Battalion 7 Chief Orio Palmer, my old Lieutenant, did in fact reach the 78th and 79th floor before giving his life. In stairwell A he reported numerous fatalities and that there were "2 pockets of fire" which needed to be extinguished before he could continue up. Not all the fire, just what was blocking his Herculean progress. He may well have performed the most heroic of all feats on that day!

                        In this 16:00 minute recording, reports of explosions on the 78th floor are given, the time of those reports are 3 minutes into the tape. Almost 30 minutes before the collapse of tower one. I got news for ya Boomer, explosions in fires are NOT a unusual occurance.

                        You make your assumptions from the safety of your computer desk. You pick through quotes and bend them to meet conspiracy theories. I assumed I could ignore you, I was wrong.

                        shatoga again:

                        sudden complete collapse of buildings designed specifically to withstand airplane impacts
                        Not 757s and those designs never took the fuel load into account. Also, at the time of design, fireloads consisting of todays office furniture, computers and other petroleum based polymer fixtures were not taken into account.

                        Failure of the steel barjoist assemblies is a common hazard in our field. We know about it, we've seen it and we know the results of it, collapse.

                        I've read the posts in your thread, some of you indicate you would like to hear from a firefighter and hear his side of what happened. Here's my side:

                        Two planes struck the World Trade Center causing massive structural damage. The ensuing fire caused a massive structural collapse. Sorry folks, that's it, nothing more. No radio controlled bombs, no government conspiracy. Just a couple of dozen militant extremists led down the road to destruction. They are a sick bunch of folks. They trust nobody, hate everybody, ignored their governments and set out on their own to destroy civilized man and live in chaos.

                        Sorry part of it is this, we have so many of these same ideas in the heads of people here in America, Tim McVeigh comes to mind.

                        Oh, wait, let me guess. He was a CIA agent sent out to destroy the FBI, right?

                        Say what you will, I will not change your minds. But do me a favor, leave us out of it. We saw what happened and we are not easily persuaded to “go along with the story”. If there was a hint of inside action here you would be reading it from the mouths of the 12,000 firefighters who were there that day.

                        I was one of them and this is my opinion. Quote me if you want but understand, I do not speak as a representitive of my department or my brother firefighters.
                        Last edited by E229Lt; 10-23-2003, 07:40 PM.

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                        • #27
                          229, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. I'm glad you didn't. Stay safe, brother.
                          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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                          • #28
                            Well put 229
                            Stay safe
                            The views mentioned here do not represent the departments that I work for

                            IACOJ

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                            • #29
                              OK....I could only read so much of that thread before my total reaction was how utterly full of **** that person is. I also agree that you said it best, 229
                              Last edited by dammitangie; 10-24-2003, 01:35 AM.
                              Angie

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                              • #30
                                Just walk away, Artie
                                Post all the frownie faces you want. This type of reaction is what I was talking about in the first place. Rational, reasonable approaches to problems and questions like these, such as E229Lt has posted, are the answer.
                                Last edited by ThNozzleman; 10-24-2003, 10:15 AM.
                                Member IACOJ

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