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SOP Stupidity

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  • SOP Stupidity

    Every department obviously has to have a set of policies to work under, hey it just makes sense. But in today's day and age it seems that they are getting stupider and stupider, and as a result, longer and longer! Recently I was reviewing the SOPs of the EMS squad I joined up with, and I found multiple prime examples!

    For starters there is an entire page of SOPs regarding saluting. There is a very important sentence near the end that says salutes are not to be rendered when uncovered (no cap)... Ill bet you can guess what we don't have... that's right, covers!

    Additionally there is an entire SOP regarding what we may not carry. Instead of just saying that weapons are disallowed, it goes on to say: (paraphrasing) one may not carry guns cudgels, cap-stun, bazookas, flame-throwers, or swords. Oh and then it goes on to say that only EMS/Fire marketed knives are allowed... kind of 'wackerish' to only allow sharp objects that have an EMS logo on them....

    These are just a few highlights from my organisations, anyone else have any stupidly-funny SOPs they would care to share? Doesn't have to just be Fire/EMS, but any organisation.

  • #2
    Not a sop fan, but if they are not in place hard to discipline a person

    And unfortunately you have to spell out the absurd, to avoid loop holes

    Yes we have some like yours that everyone is in violation because of the wording
    But ours are reviewed on an ongoing basis to clean them up
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdEH...e_gdata_player

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    • #3
      Look now laddie as we get old and tired we need to do things to amuse ourselves which doesn't require a great deal of physical effort. So we tend to look for ways to do this without leaving our desks whenever possible. You are part of a wonderful pool of ready victims to screw with lad, young, brash, easily excited, oh so smart after somehow getting though the academy. Let old men have a little fun before they die will you kid. You snot up again I'll write an SOP about arranging the silverware in the silverware drawer and send it out to ALL my old crustie friends who will send it to ALL their old crustie friends one of whom along the way will put it in the new updated SOPs you'll receive in your box. See how this works now laddie?

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      • #4
        The dumbest thing is having SOPs as opposed to SOGs.
        ?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
          The dumbest thing is having SOPs as opposed to SOGs.
          I don't entirely agree with you on this bro. If every incident we went to was exactly the same with the same personnel and equipment we could right SOGs for everything. But I kinda think it has been a lot of years for you, and you haven't made it to that second exactly the same incident with exactly the same people and equipment.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Miller337 View Post
            I don't entirely agree with you on this bro. If every incident we went to was exactly the same with the same personnel and equipment we could right SOGs for everything. But I kinda think it has been a lot of years for you, and you haven't made it to that second exactly the same incident with exactly the same people and equipment.
            Im confused -- aren't SOPs( standard operating Procedure) -? Which I understood to be more rigid than SOGs (standard operating guidelines)- I was always under the impression that guidelines gave some leeway to the working men, and the higher ups an out if someone following a rigid procedure(which may prove flawed) gets someone hurt. Maybe old age has set in, and it was the other way around.
            ?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
              Im confused -- aren't SOPs( standard operating Procedure) -? Which I understood to be more rigid than SOGs (standard operating guidelines)- I was always under the impression that guidelines gave some leeway to the working men, and the higher ups an out if someone following a rigid procedure(which may prove flawed) gets someone hurt. Maybe old age has set in, and it was the other way around.
              I would tend to agree although it may just be a matter of semantics. One department's SOP may be the equivalent of another department's SOG.

              Either way they shouldn't be so rigid as to get someone hurt. We have clear SOP's for everything but the IC can alter them at any time (as long as he has a good reason).

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              • #8
                According to our department attorney...the only legal difference between a SOP and a SOG is 1 letter.

                Either way...they are your defined operations and you better be able to defend why you didn't follow them.
                "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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                • #9
                  It's easy to make them flexible. We put a statement in the beginning of ours that says something like this:

                  "These Standard Operating Guidelines are a guideline to begin operations but because the emergency scene is fluid and ever changing we recognize that variances and changes from these guidelines may be necessary for a positive outcome. The Incident Commander has the power to deviate from these SOGs if the circumstances call for it."

                  Just more cover your *** BS that may or may not mean a damn thing in the end.
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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                  • #10
                    SOP's, SOG's, are exactly that. They are guidelines which a department writes, so the members will have a clear view and idea how the COD wants the department ran or I should say, what he expects the member to abide with.

                    Having said that, most SOP's and or SOG's are just guidelines. You can't live by that alone. Some are stretched and some are bent in some way.

                    If one say's "No firearms im the fire house", it simply means that. Leave them at home or locked up in your car or POV.
                    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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                    • #11
                      As much as it pains me to say it, they have to be that detailed, and that dumbed down, because some people don't think, can't think, or simply have no common sense.

                      The last time something got brought up at Dept 1 that several of us thought was common sense, but wasn't in the bylaws, it turned into a gigantic schitt show, because it wasn't in the bylaws/SOG's. So while I hate the fact that when I read SOG's, I feel like I'm being treated like a kindergartner, I completely understand why they are so dumbed down, and explain everything.
                      "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

                      "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The way it is with my other department, SOPs are the rigid 'you may not do this' type of rules, whereas the SOGs are 'We understand that the fireground is dynamic, so you may do this, this, or this, at your discretion.

                        The part about the 'way out' is sickening. It seems like way too many people are concerned with covering their arse than with what needs to be done.

                        I see your point about how they have to spell it out. I am sure someone, somewhere came to work with a bazooka!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Highschoolvolunteer View Post
                          The way it is with my other department, SOPs are the rigid 'you may not do this' type of rules, whereas the SOGs are 'We understand that the fireground is dynamic, so you may do this, this, or this, at your discretion.

                          The part about the 'way out' is sickening. It seems like way too many people are concerned with covering their arse than with what needs to be done.

                          I see your point about how they have to spell it out. I am sure someone, somewhere came to work with a bazooka!
                          Bazookas are so passe... I prefer an RPG... (and for those who cannot comprehend my post, it is sarcasm.... )
                          ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                          Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                            Bazookas are so passe... I prefer an RPG... (and for those who cannot comprehend my post, it is sarcasm.... )
                            Too late! PC police are surrounding your house at this very moment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As my EMR instructor says "Theres no SOP for the poor idiot who fell out of a tree and hit every branch on the way down into a bonfire"

                              Comment

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