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  • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Could you point to those observations of his supporters that claimed he is some type of deity?
    Once again you failed to read what I typed. I never said his supporters claimed that he was "some type of deity." I said he was treated as such. Alas the separation of the two concepts must be beyond your comprehension.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    His opponents were blaming him for the ills of the world the day he took office.
    Show proof for your statement. You won't, but then I won't be surprised.

    However, if you recall his victory speech, he said many things, including that the night he won the election that the Earth began cooling, the waters receded.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    We've discussed the debt. It's rising to fill the hole left his predecessor. Who doubled it during his administration by cutting sources of revenue and hiking spending. Unemployment is starting to come down. It's no where near 20%. But I enjoy your continued fantasy.
    You are right. The Republicans screwed up. They deserved to be thrown out of "control" of Congress. Yet our current President, and the the prior 4 years of Congress (2 of which with "control" of both houses of his own party) failed to correct ANY of that deficit, debt, or spending. The amount of government spending increased, adding to the deficit and debt. No difference between the two parties. And Ms. Pelosi said that she was going to work to actually cut spending and deficit. She failed. The Democrats failed to pass 2 budgets before they were supposed to be passed (the Republicans have done this in the past as well.) So the Dems cannot even do one of the very few things that are Constitutionally required to do.....no different than the Republicans.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    I can only go by what you write. Given your propensity for fantasy, how do we know this passage is anywhere near an accurate description? How do we know official records of your time in the service are accurate? A conservative group called the Swift Boat Veterans claimed official DoD documents weren't accurate in the 2004 campaign. Why should we believe you?
    What fantasy? You repetitively make this statement, only because I disagree with you, yet you fail to support your statement with any data. I suppose that you will try to just say all I have to do is read what I wrote. I only posted an opposing view to yours. I suppose that anyone that disagrees with you must be living in a fantasy right?

    As for why you or anyone should believe me? You will either take me at my word, or you won't. Your choice to do so. But if you actually have any balls, you would come out and just call me a liar for everyone to see instead of trying to skirt the issue.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Many have said she was a poor candidate. Brown will have a fight on his hands to keep that seat next year. He's voted to extend unemployment benefits and has gone contrary to tea party interests several times. We'll see if that is enough to keep him in a seat from a solid democratic state.
    She was a pathetic candidate. Senator Brown remains the most popular politician in Massachusetts currently. By far. Sure, not everyone has agreed with every vote he made.....but no one should be surprised because he said that he would make votes people did not like. Now the Tea Party is upset. Let them be. They were not the only reason that he won - despite what many think. He ran a good, decent campaign. The Democrats flopped horrendously and learned from it in November and took nothing for granted.

    As for a fight next year....every candidate, incumbent or not, should have a good, hard fight to have the privilege of serving their fellow citizens. Many names have been bantered about. The biggest one being Victoria Kennedy. Mass. lost a Congressional seat this year, so many of the names thrown out there are sitting Congressman, many of whom had VERY tough fights last year. Nothing should be a slam dunk. But we shall see what happens.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    So what state do you live in that is economic nirvana? No unemployment, low taxes, and a balanced budget?
    I never claimed that my current state is an economic nirvana. However with no sales tax, no income tax, and the 4th lowest unemployment rate in the nation, New Hampshire is in far better financial and economic condition than Massachusetts. Property taxers are about 30% higher, however those property taxes fund the locality, and very little goes to the state to be parceled out back to cities and towns funding innumerable additional bureaucracies.

    http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

    Additionally, New Hampshire has the 7th highest per capita debt by state, while Massachusetts has the highest.

    It may not be perfect, but compared to Massachusetts, it is better.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    The government is a reflection of its people. I know that is a difficult concept for many.
    Not for me. But thanks for the slight.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Agreed. And how do you believe he paid for it?
    Debt, in the form of bonds. Debt is debt. Sugarcoat it, call it by a different name, but it was still debt.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Look back to where I stated the government is a reflection of its citizens. The citizens that don't pay taxes do pay other taxes. For one reason they don't make that much money. I do enjoy your class warfare. Make no mistake, I believe class warfare is very much alive and real. The middle class is losing. The majority of which are being driven into poverty.
    So you have no problem with 47% of people that earned income last year paying NO money to the Federal government in income taxes? You have got to be kidding me. I understand the poor need a bit of help, but to pay no money in income taxes is ludicrous. I think that if you make money and are going to receive benefits from the Feds, then you ought to at least put something into the system. I am still "middle class", and I am doing well for myself.

    By the way, you may want to fix this line - it makes no sense: "The citizens that don't pay taxes do pay other taxes." I can only assume that you meant to state that those that don't pay any Federal income taxes pay other taxes. Like what? What other Federal taxes, aside from SS and Medicare, do they pay? And why should some folks get more back in a Federal income tax return than what was extracted from their paychecks?

    [QUOTE=scfire86;1238276]Like which ones?

    When you show me those that support your statement, I will give you some that support mine. No governmentally employed economists either.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm very much aware of that. Blue Cross is proposing a 57% rate hike in CA.
    One must cover their present and future costs. Additionally, when the state and Federal governments are pushing innumerable new membership onto their rosters of patients, then those costs to provide preventive and ongoing care are going to increase costs. Unfortunately, many in these companies also make a bit too much, but they make what the market bears.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Won't know until it is tried. That is prediction being made by people who have yet to be right about anything.
    We have tried. Like I said, Massachusetts has blown holes in its budget doing almost exactly what the Feds are now doing - and while receiving supplemental funds from the Feds for doing so. And the 98% coverage is a slight shell game. There is something in Mass. called "Health Safety Net." This is a plan that, while still insurance, does not cover for OB-Gyn and PCP visits. It only covers Emergency Department visits. And a large number of folks have this as their only coverage.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not the question I asked. I'll try again. A program that has benefitted the "middle class" MORE than the wealthy or corporate entities.
    Cutting of income taxes, cutting of sales taxes. Based upon a percentage of income taken in taxes, it benefits them more greatly.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    My opinion is based upon observation. Yours are not.
    If you say so. Then again, we know that you are never wrong, you have admitted as much.

    Here's a novel concept that you might be able to understand. Perhaps we have observed the same thing from different points of view, and with different results. Hence, we can both base our opinions off of observation (which is redundant since that is how opinions are formed), and still feel that we are each right. Although I do it without personally insulting you and stating that you live in a "fantasy." But then, I am just "thinskinned."

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    I don't live there. Friends of mine that do live there enjoy their lives quite a bit. Many are CA transplants. You did the right thing by leaving.
    I enjoy my life as well. And I did do the right thing by leaving. I did the right thing for myself, and for my family. You speak for them, I lived it. Big difference there. Just as there are folks that enjoy California, Hawai'i, or other places, I just don't have a desire to live there. Funny how you speak with such authority on the matter, but you "don't live there."

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    I understand. You're asked questions that you know you can't answer without conflicting with your narrative.
    No, I answer questions if I want to. Just like you.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really, can you point to one thread you (or any of the conservatives on this board) started that was critical of conservatives? Specifically Bush during his administration? Conservatives have kicked him to the curb and kept him in a closet so that he can do no harm by reminding people just how awful he was as president. You think it is an accident he started his book tour after the November elections?
    Nope, I can't. My life does not revolve around these boards. As for his book tour, he started it then for whatever reason he did. Maybe you are right (and we all know that you think you are), maybe you aren't. But for someone that has said many times that he does not want to live in a world of hypotheticals and unknowns, you sure do it a lot.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Never said any such things. Are you defending those actions by conservatives because they've been done by Dems?
    I am not defending those actions. I have stated many times that their actions were wrong. You have only chosen to criticize the Republicans while saying nary a word about the Democrats doing the same, exact thing.....Correction, you make excuses for them when you do.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    So which ones do you trust?
    I trust Senator Brown. I'll give any politician a fighting chance, regardless of the party - despite what you think. I'll let you, as a politician, convince me that I should vote for you to get into office, and to stay in office. But after 10 years you are done. You are no longer effective. You are part of the problem.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    If you say so.
    Well, you state twice that me not voting for President Obama was an act of hatred. So tell me why you not voting for Senator McCain was not an act of hatred. You won't, but I figured I'd give you the chance to do so.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Thanks.
    We all know your holier-than-thou attitude does not allow you to consider any opposing viewpoints without devolving to insults, slander, lies, condescension, and misnomers.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    You just did.
    I did not answer the question. I do not speak for others, unless asked to do so. I speak for me.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Once again you failed to read what I typed. I never said his supporters claimed that he was "some type of deity." I said he was treated as such. Alas the separation of the two concepts must be beyond your comprehension.
      His detractors claim his supporters treated him like deity. Based on what? You won't answer that question. Show us examples of why his detractors had that belief.


      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Show proof for your statement. You won't, but then I won't be surprised.
      Here's Sean Hannity blaming Obama for the nation's economic woes on day 35 of his administration. By the way, looking back on that clip. Hannity has been proven wrong about everything he predicted. He blames Obama for the falling of the stock market. Yet currently doesn't give him credit for the market being almost back to where it was before Bush screwed up the economy.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      However, if you recall his victory speech, he said many things, including that the night he won the election that the Earth began cooling, the waters receded.
      Sadly, you resort to fantasy. Nothing of the sort was said in his speech that night. Typical.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      You are right. The Republicans screwed up. They deserved to be thrown out of "control" of Congress. Yet our current President, and the the prior 4 years of Congress (2 of which with "control" of both houses of his own party) failed to correct ANY of that deficit, debt, or spending. The amount of government spending increased, adding to the deficit and debt. No difference between the two parties. And Ms. Pelosi said that she was going to work to actually cut spending and deficit. She failed. The Democrats failed to pass 2 budgets before they were supposed to be passed (the Republicans have done this in the past as well.) So the Dems cannot even do one of the very few things that are Constitutionally required to do.....no different than the Republicans.
      Already been over this. The spending is needed to fill the hole blown in the economy by the laissez-faire policies of his predecessor. Sorry if that concept escapes you. Same tactic used by FDR and Reagan. It worked for them, and it's working now.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      What fantasy? You repetitively make this statement, only because I disagree with you, yet you fail to support your statement with any data. I suppose that you will try to just say all I have to do is read what I wrote. I only posted an opposing view to yours. I suppose that anyone that disagrees with you must be living in a fantasy right?
      Just cited another example of your dissolution into fantasy earlier.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      As for why you or anyone should believe me? You will either take me at my word, or you won't. Your choice to do so. But if you actually have any balls, you would come out and just call me a liar for everyone to see instead of trying to skirt the issue.
      Well, are you lying? I'm only going by the actions of conservatives who stated official records shouldn't be believed. Do you believe they were right or wrong when they waged that campaign against John Kerry?


      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      She was a pathetic candidate. Senator Brown remains the most popular politician in Massachusetts currently. By far. Sure, not everyone has agreed with every vote he made.....but no one should be surprised because he said that he would make votes people did not like. Now the Tea Party is upset. Let them be. They were not the only reason that he won - despite what many think. He ran a good, decent campaign. The Democrats flopped horrendously and learned from it in November and took nothing for granted.

      As for a fight next year....every candidate, incumbent or not, should have a good, hard fight to have the privilege of serving their fellow citizens. Many names have been bantered about. The biggest one being Victoria Kennedy. Mass. lost a Congressional seat this year, so many of the names thrown out there are sitting Congressman, many of whom had VERY tough fights last year. Nothing should be a slam dunk. But we shall see what happens.
      Agreed. Yet I have had the same GOP representative since 1989. Funny thing. He stated when he ran that he would only serve two terms.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      I never claimed that my current state is an economic nirvana. However with no sales tax, no income tax, and the 4th lowest unemployment rate in the nation, New Hampshire is in far better financial and economic condition than Massachusetts. Property taxers are about 30% higher, however those property taxes fund the locality, and very little goes to the state to be parceled out back to cities and towns funding innumerable additional bureaucracies.

      http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

      Additionally, New Hampshire has the 7th highest per capita debt by state, while Massachusetts has the highest.

      It may not be perfect, but compared to Massachusetts, it is better.
      Which was the point I was making. All states (liberal and conservative) are suffering economic woes.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Not for me. But thanks for the slight.
      No sweat.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Debt, in the form of bonds. Debt is debt. Sugarcoat it, call it by a different name, but it was still debt.
      Sometimes one has no choice in order to keep the economy moving. Bush didn't need it, but doubled the national debt. Obama inherited a disaster. He had no palatable alternatives.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      So you have no problem with 47% of people that earned income last year paying NO money to the Federal government in income taxes? You have got to be kidding me. I understand the poor need a bit of help, but to pay no money in income taxes is ludicrous. I think that if you make money and are going to receive benefits from the Feds, then you ought to at least put something into the system. I am still "middle class", and I am doing well for myself.
      I'd rather pay taxes and live at my level than be at the income level of the 47% of those who don't pay taxes. I see my lot in life much better than theirs. I guess you don't.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      By the way, you may want to fix this line - it makes no sense: "The citizens that don't pay taxes do pay other taxes." I can only assume that you meant to state that those that don't pay any Federal income taxes pay other taxes. Like what? What other Federal taxes, aside from SS and Medicare, do they pay? And why should some folks get more back in a Federal income tax return than what was extracted from their paychecks?
      Because that is the system we had in our country till the GOP started screwing it up back in the 80's.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      When you show me those that support your statement, I will give you some that support mine. No governmentally employed economists either.
      So who is acceptable to you? If I can't use governmentally employed economists, then you can't use economists from think tanks supported by conservatives. (ie. Heritage Foundation, CATO Institute, Hoover Foundation et al.)

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      One must cover their present and future costs. Additionally, when the state and Federal governments are pushing innumerable new membership onto their rosters of patients, then those costs to provide preventive and ongoing care are going to increase costs. Unfortunately, many in these companies also make a bit too much, but they make what the market bears.
      If there were free market forces in play, I would agree with you. Health care is an oligopoly. They're charging fees knowing consumers have few if any choices.


      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Cutting of income taxes, cutting of sales taxes. Based upon a percentage of income taken in taxes, it benefits them more greatly.
      And it also causes the deficits being experienced at every level of govt.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      If you say so. Then again, we know that you are never wrong, you have admitted as much.
      Thanks for the compliment.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Here's a novel concept that you might be able to understand. Perhaps we have observed the same thing from different points of view, and with different results. Hence, we can both base our opinions off of observation (which is redundant since that is how opinions are formed), and still feel that we are each right. Although I do it without personally insulting you and stating that you live in a "fantasy." But then, I am just "thinskinned."
      Because I've shown you are prone to fantasy. I'm not being derogatory, just pointing out the facts.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      I enjoy my life as well. And I did do the right thing by leaving. I did the right thing for myself, and for my family. You speak for them, I lived it. Big difference there. Just as there are folks that enjoy California, Hawai'i, or other places, I just don't have a desire to live there. Funny how you speak with such authority on the matter, but you "don't live there."
      Good for you. I can only say those I know who moved to MA enjoy living there.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Nope, I can't. My life does not revolve around these boards. As for his book tour, he started it then for whatever reason he did. Maybe you are right (and we all know that you think you are), maybe you aren't. But for someone that has said many times that he does not want to live in a world of hypotheticals and unknowns, you sure do it a lot.
      Yeah, given his unfavorability, I'm sure it was just a coincidence.


      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      I am not defending those actions. I have stated many times that their actions were wrong. You have only chosen to criticize the Republicans while saying nary a word about the Democrats doing the same, exact thing.....Correction, you make excuses for them when you do.
      Still waiting for you to show the threads you started critical of conservatives. Can you point me to one conservative policy that could be considered a success? I can point to numerous liberal ones.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      I trust Senator Brown. I'll give any politician a fighting chance, regardless of the party - despite what you think. I'll let you, as a politician, convince me that I should vote for you to get into office, and to stay in office. But after 10 years you are done. You are no longer effective. You are part of the problem.
      I don't believe in term limits at any level. Including POTUS. I believe I should have the choice to support someone I believe is doing a good job.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      Well, you state twice that me not voting for President Obama was an act of hatred. So tell me why you not voting for Senator McCain was not an act of hatred. You won't, but I figured I'd give you the chance to do so.
      One need only look at the rhetoric directed at Obama before and since the election to know the answer to that question.


      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      We all know your holier-than-thou attitude does not allow you to consider any opposing viewpoints without devolving to insults, slander, lies, condescension, and misnomers.
      Quit telling lies about me, I'll quit telling the truth about you.

      Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
      I did not answer the question. I do not speak for others, unless asked to do so. I speak for me.
      Uh...okay.
      Last edited by scfire86; 01-13-2011, 10:27 AM.
      They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

      I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

      Comment


      • You should all limit your speech and be nicer.

        Haven't you been paying attention to the liberal elite?

        You better be nicer and use nicer words or more assasinations will occur.
        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
          You should all limit your speech and be nicer.

          Haven't you been paying attention to the liberal elite?

          You better be nicer and use nicer words or more assasinations will occur.
          Given the number of incidents of violence by right wing nutcases directed towards liberals (perceived or real) the last two years you might have a point. I should be worried.
          They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
            Given the number of incidents of violence by right wing nutcases directed towards liberals (perceived or real) the last two years you might have a point. I should be worried.
            Yes, continue to advocate the suppression of free speech. I would expect nothing less.
            I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

            "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

            "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
              Yes, continue to advocate the suppression of free speech. I would expect nothing less.
              Like Sharkie you dissolve into fantasy when facts don't support you. I've advocated no such thing. I only stated there are numerous incidents of violence by right wing nutcases directed at liberals or government officials the last two years.

              Do you not believe that to be true?

              Where did I state speech should be suppressed?
              They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                Yes, continue to advocate the suppression of free speech. I would expect nothing less.
                Waste of time Chief. Waste of time.
                "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                Comment


                • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  His detractors claim his supporters treated him like deity. Based on what? You won't answer that question. Show us examples of why his detractors had that belief.
                  Based on my observations. But then again, my observations make me live in a fantasy. I won't answer the question because I will follow your tactic and example.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Here's Sean Hannity blaming Obama for the nation's economic woes on day 35 of his administration. By the way, looking back on that clip. Hannity has been proven wrong about everything he predicted. He blames Obama for the falling of the stock market. Yet currently doesn't give him credit for the market being almost back to where it was before Bush screwed up the economy.
                  I don't blame Mr. Obama for the nation's current lot, I blame him for doing nothing to change it. As do I blame both houses of Congress, and both parties. You only blame Mr. Bush, and give the Democrats a free pass.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Sadly, you resort to fantasy. Nothing of the sort was said in his speech that night. Typical.
                  You obviously did not watch it. Watch his speech from the night that he won the Democratic primary, June 4, 2008. You must have thought that I was speaking of his speech on the night of the general election. Funny how you lack the ability to read into certain posts.

                  http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...fa629a7c4b3012

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Already been over this. The spending is needed to fill the hole blown in the economy by the laissez-faire policies of his predecessor. Sorry if that concept escapes you. Same tactic used by FDR and Reagan. It worked for them, and it's working now.
                  It may be working now, but only by passing the proverbial dollar to future generations. Funny how it is OK for a Democrat to pass the buck to your children and grandchildren.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Just cited another example of your dissolution into fantasy earlier.
                  No you did not.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Well, are you lying? I'm only going by the actions of conservatives who stated official records shouldn't be believed. Do you believe they were right or wrong when they waged that campaign against John Kerry?
                  No, I am not lying. But then again you don't believe me. I suppose that I should doubt your statements that you have served. Except that I accept it at face value.

                  As for the campaign waged against Senator Kerry, I honestly never paid much attention to it. But seeing as how it was allowed under the law, then they can do what they want. No different than the fake memos that Dan Rather dreamed up that were deemed "fake but accurate" by the New York Times.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Agreed. Yet I have had the same GOP representative since 1989. Funny thing. He stated when he ran that he would only serve two terms.
                  Then he should not be voted for if he violated his word. Former Congressman Marty Meehan (D) from Massachusetts said that he would only serve a set number of terms, yet ran for many more.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Which was the point I was making. All states (liberal and conservative) are suffering economic woes.
                  I never said they weren't. All states are facing a crisis, because of their stupidity of passing laws and programs that they could not afford or pay for, and without the ability to pay for the ones they already have. Hell, Illinois just raised taxes to pay for their buffoonery. Massachusetts did the same in 2009.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  No sweat.
                  Whatever you say.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Sometimes one has no choice in order to keep the economy moving. Bush didn't need it, but doubled the national debt. Obama inherited a disaster. He had no palatable alternatives.
                  Recall that Mr. Bush did it, but for the last 2 years of his Presidency he had Democrats "controlling" the House of Representatives. You know, the ones with the responsibility of passing a budget - that they failed to do twice, including this year. It does not matter what is palatable or not. It what is necessary.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  I'd rather pay taxes and live at my level than be at the income level of the 47% of those who don't pay taxes. I see my lot in life much better than theirs. I guess you don't.
                  And your guessing would be wrong. I would rather pay taxes to live at my level as well, and I pay them honestly as they are necessary to operate a government. But when nearly half of all people not paying a single penny to the Federal government while receiving incredible amounts of money from it is wrong. I have no problem supporting the poor, but it is a hand up, not a hand out - to use the tired old cliche.

                  I'm still waiting for a liberal or Democrat to tell me what percentage of the money I make should be taken away from me and my family in taxation. I just want a number so that I'll know when I reach it. Because the amount I pay is never enough.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Because that is the system we had in our country till the GOP started screwing it up back in the 80's.
                  Thanks for not answering the question asked. What "other taxes" to the Federal government do these folks pay?

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  So who is acceptable to you? If I can't use governmentally employed economists, then you can't use economists from think tanks supported by conservatives. (ie. Heritage Foundation, CATO Institute, Hoover Foundation et al.)
                  Anyone that does not work for the Federal government.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  If there were free market forces in play, I would agree with you. Health care is an oligopoly. They're charging fees knowing consumers have few if any choices.
                  And they still have to cover their costs. The government foists numerous additional burdens on them, and their costs keep going up. Even in Great Britain where the government owns everything, the costs go up. And they control costs and reimbursements.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  And it also causes the deficits being experienced at every level of govt.
                  No, spending more than you take in causes deficits, and adds to the debt. No different in the realm of government than it is in the realm of business or personal finance.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Thanks for the compliment.
                  It's not a compliment if it is something that you have already said about yourself. But then you know that.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Because I've shown you are prone to fantasy. I'm not being derogatory, just pointing out the facts.
                  If you say so.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Good for you. I can only say those I know who moved to MA enjoy living there.
                  And many I know that live there don't.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Yeah, given his unfavorability, I'm sure it was just a coincidence.
                  Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But since you offer up no proof, then it is just "fantasy."

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Still waiting for you to show the threads you started critical of conservatives. Can you point me to one conservative policy that could be considered a success? I can point to numerous liberal ones.
                  If you say so.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  I don't believe in term limits at any level. Including POTUS. I believe I should have the choice to support someone I believe is doing a good job.
                  There you go reading into my statements. I have not said a thing about term limits. I said I do not vote for politicians in office for more than 10 years. That does not mean that I feel there should be term limits.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  One need only look at the rhetoric directed at Obama before and since the election to know the answer to that question.
                  But you said ME (personally) not voting for Mr. Obama was an act of hatred. Way to backpedal. Either that or you were incorrectly and unnecessarily lumping me in with other folks.

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Quit telling lies about me, I'll quit telling the truth about you.
                  What lies? What truth?

                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  Uh...okay.
                  What? How can I speak for others? I am not them. Unless elected to so or appointed to do so, I cannot, nor will I.
                  "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                  The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                  "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                  "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                  www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                    Like Sharkie you dissolve into fantasy when facts don't support you. I've advocated no such thing. I only stated there are numerous incidents of violence by right wing nutcases directed at liberals or government officials the last two years.

                    Do you not believe that to be true?
                    "right wing nutcases"... this was a nutcase, but applying right wing as a tag to him is like saying a spinning top is a compass.

                    Where did I state speech should be suppressed?
                    So you disagree with the President and the liberal elite?

                    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/dem...osshairs-maps/
                    Last edited by ChiefKN; 01-13-2011, 08:08 PM.
                    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
                      Waste of time Chief. Waste of time.
                      You made me laugh... love ya, but who's wasting their time here?

                      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                        "right wing nutcases"... this was a nutcase, but applying right wing as a tag to him is like saying a spinning top is a compass.
                        I wasn't talking about Loughner. Though I'm not surprised that is your immediate conclusion. I was referring to these incidents:

                        — July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

                        — October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

                        — December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals — the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure” — threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

                        — December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

                        — January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

                        — February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

                        — April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

                        — April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

                        — May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

                        — June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

                        — February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one “domestic terrorism” too.)

                        — March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

                        — March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

                        — May 2010: A “sovereign citizen” from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

                        — May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

                        — May 2010: Two “sovereign citizens” named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

                        — July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

                        — September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year–old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the “Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.
                        We are told by conservatives these are "isolated" incidents. At what point in time do conservatives come to grips with the reality their violence toned rhetoric is responsible for yet another “isolated” incident.

                        I believe Loughner is more like the pathetic character Travis Bickle. Nihilistic is the term I've heard used and I believe is appropriate.


                        Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                        So you disagree with the President and the liberal elite?

                        http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/dem...osshairs-maps/
                        What qualifies this individual as an elitist?
                        Last edited by scfire86; 01-13-2011, 08:24 PM.
                        They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                        I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                          We are told by conservatives these are "isolated" incidents. At what point in time do conservatives come to grips with the reality their violence toned rhetoric is responsible for yet another “isolated” incident.
                          At the same point that the left decide to finally burn the constitution, like it was a US Flag.

                          If you think that extremist attacks are the sole domain of the right wing, your living in a fantasy land. Let's include ELF and the various "green" terrorists that roam this country. Oh and William Ayers....amongst others.

                          Gosh, let's reflect on all those liberal students, the various liberal protests against the world bank, etc... So peaceful!

                          Hey, can you point to those attacks you listed and tell me how many were caused by this supposed violence toned rhetoric from Republicans or conservatives?

                          Its not like they advocated bringing a gun to a knife fight, like Obama did.

                          As a matter of fact, explain what "violence toned rhetoric" means...
                          Last edited by ChiefKN; 01-13-2011, 08:51 PM.
                          I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                          "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                          "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                          Comment


                          • By the way....

                            http://petervonleheruegner.wordpress...ye-target-map/
                            I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                            "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                            "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              At the same point that the left decide to finally burn the constitution, like it was a US Flag.
                              That is why we have elections. Are you saying laws that are legally passed according to the procedures dictated in our Constitution are justification for violence?

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              If you think that extremist attacks are the sole domain of the right wing, your living in a fantasy land. Let's include ELF and the various "green" terrorists that roam this country. Oh and William Ayers....amongst others.
                              Really? That's all you got? An enviro group from the 80's and a radical from the 60's? That justifies the current spate of violence? This is what is known as a false equivalency in debate tactics. But....can you point to a liberal candidate for the US Senate that talked about 2nd Amendment solutions or a liberal talk show host that advocated the military leadership to revolt against the CinC?

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              Gosh, let's reflect on all those liberal students, the various liberal protests against the world bank, etc... So peaceful!
                              And how many conservatives were gunned down in those protests?

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              Hey, can you point to those attacks you listed and tell me how many were caused by this supposed violence toned rhetoric from Republicans or conservatives?
                              Almost all of them. Folks like Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly have been screaming that Obama is a socialist, commie, facist, etc. The NRA has been bellyaching that Obama is going to take away people's guns. This is especially curious given that no anti-gun legislation is being given serious consideration. In fact, it was Obama who signed legislation allowing guns to be carried in National Parks.

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              Its not like they advocated bringing a gun to a knife fight, like Obama did.
                              The quote is “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." Aside from the fact that neither Obama or his followers have brought weapons to a political event or campaign, the quote speaks for itself. "If" the opposition doesn't bring a knife, a gun won't be necessary.

                              Reading, it's FUNdamental.

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              As a matter of fact, explain what "violence toned rhetoric" means...
                              Rhetoric that incites violence. I'm surprised you would ask that question. Is this a confusing concept?
                              Last edited by scfire86; 01-13-2011, 10:25 PM.
                              They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                                That is why we have elections. Are you saying laws that are legally passed according to the procedures dictated in our Constitution are justification for violence?
                                A law that would take away our right to free speech is not a just law.

                                "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

                                Really? That's all you got? An enviro group from the 80's and a radical from the 60's? That justifies the current spate of violence? This is what is known as a false equivalency in debate tactics. But....can you point to a liberal candidate for the US Senate that talked about 2nd Amendment solutions or a liberal talk show host that advocated the military leadership to revolt against the CinC?
                                ELF is alive and well and Obama's buddy from the 60's was bombing entire buildings... but its okay because he was a liberal.

                                Originally posted by Obama lackey Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO)
                                The liberal senator called for violence if democrats don’t get their historic tax hikes.

                                McCaskill told the press that if democrats were not allowed to raise taxes on the rich,

                                “It really is time for the people of America to take up pitchforks.“
                                Originally posted by Sen. Mary Landrieu D-LA
                                threatened the president of the United States with physical violence on Sunday, saying that if he or any other government official criticizes New Orleans police for failing to keep civil order in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina - "I might likely have to punch him - literally."

                                "If one person criticizes [our sheriffs], or says one more thing, including the president of the United States, he will hear from me - one more word about it after this show airs and I - I might likely have to punch him - literally," Landrieu railed on "ABC's "This Week."
                                And how many conservatives were gunned down in those protests?
                                You still haven't proven that these folks were inspired by conservatives or republicans. The fact that they state they have similiar views is proof of nothing. Thats like saying that Castro was inspired by FDR.

                                I'll wait.

                                Almost all of them. Folks like Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly have been screaming that Obama is a socialist, commie, facist, etc. The NRA has been bellyaching that Obama is going to take away people's guns. This is especially curious given that no anti-gun legislation is being given serious consideration. In fact, it was Obama who signed legislation allowing guns to be carried in National Parks.
                                Great non-sequitar.

                                The quote is “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." Aside from the fact that neither Obama or his followers have brought weapons to a political event or campaign, the quote speaks for itself. "If" the opposition doesn't bring a knife, a gun won't be necessary.
                                Wow, can't believe you missed the point. The point isn't the reality of the chances of violence. Unless you are delusional to think that Palin or any of these mysterious right wingers who used "violent rhetoric" really wanted people to go hunt these liberals... the point was that you were claiming that violence speech can cause this sort of violence. Well, here is your boyfriend using a violent metaphor.

                                Reading, it's FUNdamental.
                                Apparently not...

                                Rhetoric that incites violence. I'm surprised you would ask that question. Is this a confusing concept?
                                Its an unproven one at best. Can you even prove that this nutjob knew about Palin's website? Maybe he got his information from Huffington's crappy website.

                                This exploitation by the left is sickening.
                                I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                                "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                                "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                                Comment

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