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  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    How about a more neutral term? "Irrational"
    I'm not denying that I feel that way at times. However, I have seen loved ones benefit from their faith. Does that mean that some supreme being helped them as opposed to some internal strength, no.

    Many people get strength from their faith, so irrational, stupid... all those judgemental words seem, to me, to ignore the positives of faith.

    Don't lecture me about the negatives of faith, I understand those as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Also, I think its a bit immature to write off what a large percentage of the world believes as silliness.
    How about a more neutral term? "Irrational"

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    In your own mind, perhaps. To everyone else, it's just silliness.
    It's not "my mind". I don't have that faith.

    Also, I think its a bit immature to write off what a large percentage of the world believes as silliness.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThNozzleman
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    If you have that faith, then it's very simple to explain creation.
    In your own mind, perhaps. To everyone else, it's just silliness.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Not if you take any time to think about it. Where did the "supreme being" come from? Positing the existence of a supreme being doesn't simplify the question of "Creation;" it just adds another hypothetical layer of complexity to the issue.
    You have obviously studied religion, the basis of most religions is faith. It's hard to argue with faith. Faith by its own definition doesn't require evidence.

    The truly religious will have an explanation and story to support their beliefs. Will it be something you can disprove. Not likely.

    If you have that faith, then it's very simple to explain creation.

    Leave a comment:


  • abeth86
    replied
    I'll go you one better: The most rational answer is that we don't know and probably never will. We can speculate about "just as much chance" of one thing or another but the truth of the matter is that we can't even reasonably make odds one way or another.
    More eloquently my point exactly.

    Although I wouldn't go so far as to say we'll *never* know, we do tend to be pretty curious types. We also tend to figure out what we're questioning.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
    No more complex than matter spewing forth from nothing.
    That's less complex than an invisible sky daddy spewing forth from nothing who then "creates" the Universe from more nothing.

    I think the most rational answer to the entire question is that there's just as much chance of there being a God, as there is that the universe created itself.
    I'll go you one better: The most rational answer is that we don't know and probably never will. We can speculate about "just as much chance" of one thing or another but the truth of the matter is that we can't even reasonably make odds one way or another.
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 09-03-2010, 10:30 PM.

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  • abeth86
    replied
    No more complex than matter spewing forth from nothing. Where did that matter come from? Moreover, how did the spark come to be in a void of nothingness?

    Can you even call nothingness a void? It simply doesn't exist.

    I think the most rational answer to the entire question is that there's just as much chance of there being a God, as there is that the universe created itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    as its just plain easier to believe that somebody waved their magic wand and things just happened.
    Not if you take any time to think about it. Where did the "supreme being" come from? Positing the existence of a supreme being doesn't simplify the question of "Creation;" it just adds another hypothetical layer of complexity to the issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Same here. Doesn't mean to me that a superior being is responsible.
    I agree. You won't find me praying in a church.

    Considering how complex our natural world is, its no wonder more people don't just put their faith in a supreme being as its just plain easier to believe that somebody waved their magic wand and things just happened.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I guess I look at biology and the many functions of the body and how intricately it all works together... the complexity of it.
    Never said any of the above wasn't the case.

    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Look, i'm not thumping a bible here. However, working in the medical profession has exposed me to some amazing knowledge and experiences.
    Same here. Doesn't mean to me that a superior being is responsible.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not really. You're making the assumption the current outcome was the only available option.

    It's akin to shooting an arrow into a wall and drawing a target around it.
    I guess I look at biology and the many functions of the body and how intricately it all works together... the complexity of it.

    Look, i'm not thumping a bible here. However, working in the medical profession has exposed me to some amazing knowledge and experiences.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    It just makes my head stop hurting when I watch these shows and read about the size and creation of the universe. When you boil all the science down, things are just a tad to orderly to be random.

    Now my head hurts again....
    Not really. You're making the assumption the current outcome was the only available option.

    It's akin to shooting an arrow into a wall and drawing a target around it.

    Leave a comment:


  • abeth86
    replied
    I read somewhere in the science-o-sphere that the big bang itself could have been a result of gravity tugging across a universal membrane. Of course, I've also read that the universe itself is a holographic projection from a flat, 2d surface without space.

    There's a lot of variance in what could be true, and with all the fancy new tools we have coming online to solve some of the bigger questions we just find ourselves with thrashed theories and bigger questions. From a purely logical standpoint, it's just as likely that there's a creator as that there is not. What role said creator has in your own personal life equates to religion, not the presence or absence of one.

    Just saying.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
    Of course, the doesn't explain something from nothing. Doesn't gravity require the existence of something?
    The problem is that "g_d(s)" don't explain "something from nothing" either.

    Gravity requires mass which is just a special form of energy. If CERN/LHC ever does observe evidence of a Higgs Boson (aka "The God Particle"), we'll be closer to understanding how mass came into the picture.

    Leave a comment:

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