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Five Myths About the GOP That Just Won't Die

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  • DaSharkie
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Not really considering the lack of frequency of the events I cited when regulatory agencies were being supported to do their jobs.
    Or could it also be attributed to the incestuous hiring of people from Wall Street with the blind expectation that they might actually enforce the law against those that they just worked for and made millions doing.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Given it has become the mantra of conservatives, it is a reality like it or not. And a failed one at that.
    And the mantra of the liberals/progressives/Democrats over the past 4 years has just been stellar, hasn't it? That's right, it has been because the Democrats/liberals/progressives cannot, and have never done anything wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • DaSharkie
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    The pattern I see is that you rarely if ever blame the GOP who got us into the mess.
    You obviously have ignored what I have posted MULTIPLE time - even in the post that you quoted. You ought to pay attention to the posts that I make before you spout off stating I have not made certain statements. You won't, but you ought to.

    I blame BOTH parties, as well as the financial gurus on Wall Street (a large percentage of whom gave large sums of money to the Democrats), and managers of companies.

    You, on the other hand, only blame Republicans and conservatives. Yet ignore the corruption and ineptness within and commited by the Democrats.

    Your blind allegiance to the progressive/liberal/Democratic ideology only conceals your inability to pass ANY blame to the same group which you worship and espouse the benefits of.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Pretty far-reaching and certainly myopic view of events.
    Not really considering the lack of frequency of the events I cited when regulatory agencies were being supported to do their jobs.

    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The real shame is that a few tax cuts are viewed as a "conservative fiscal policy". The reality is that it was far from it.
    Given it has become the mantra of conservatives, it is a reality like it or not. And a failed one at that.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    We are now feeling the effects of the deregulation mania of the conservative ascendancy over the past 30 years. From understaffing agencies like the SEC (and spare me the porn nonsense – 30 guys in a major agenmcy over x years watching porn is such a drop in the statistical bucket it’s ridiculous, quite aside from its utter irrelevancy to the structural issues that were in play) to restricting its scope of permissible review (remember Phil Gramm’s sneaking a specific statutory exemption from regulation for derivatives trading into a bill ) to the repeal of Depression era limits on financial institutions that had served the economy well to the appointment of regulatory “directors” like Chris Cox who wasn’t so much asleep at the wheel as an unbeliever in using the wheel in the first place, anti-regulatory ideology inspired by Rand/Friedman free market dogma has come home to roost in many places – in a collapsed coal mine, in the Gulf of Mexico, on your grocery store shelves over the past few years (how many tainted products will it take for us to really regulate food production – and how many deaths?), at your bank (if it’s still the samne one you used three years ago) to the house next door that’s been foreclosed.
    Pretty far-reaching and certainly myopic view of events.

    But the biggest myth of all is that tax cuts for the rich will create jobs. We've had the lowest tax cuts for the wealthy in our society for eight years under Bush and he has one of the worst records of job creation for any recent president. Those same tax cuts won't expire till the end of the year and there are no jobs.
    The real shame is that a few tax cuts are viewed as a "conservative fiscal policy". The reality is that it was far from it.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Like I said, politicians are all crooks - it does not matter the party from which they come.

    I blame both parties - you only blame one. See a pattern emerging here?
    The pattern I see is that you rarely if ever blame the GOP who got us into the mess.

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    And, we disagree fundamentally that a President truly controls an economy. Congress certainly does not. If that were true, our economy ought to be going like gangbusters with all the billions upon billions that a Democratically "controlled" Congress has allowed to be spent (most of which has been added to our national debt.) Little control is effected by a President or Congress - despite their respective thinking that they control all that occurs.
    Compared to what it was when the meltdown occurred it is far better.

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    You also like to ignore, or forget, that the Democrats have "controlled" both houses of Congress for 4 years. They are just as culpable for our current financial situation relating to debt and deficit. If either party that actually "controls" Congress really meant what they said......they would actually reign in spending. Billions could be saved annually be eliminating farm subsidies, tax breaks, restructuring the tax code, actually cutting the ridiculous pork projects, and passing a health care reform bill that might actually benefit the citizenry. Alas, they are politicians and have no desire to act in the best interest of those that they represent, or the nation in general. They serve at the behest of those that contribute to their campaigns, their "friends", and themselves.
    The current mess started to occur when Dems took control of a congress that had GOP majorities for 12 years. The policies of conservative mismanagement took full effect by the end of Bush's term. If the Dem congress was responsible for the recession inherited by Obama then I could just as easily say the GOP congress was responsible for the recession inherited by Bush in Jan. 2001. Wouldn't you say?

    We are now feeling the effects of the deregulation mania of the conservative ascendancy over the past 30 years. From understaffing agencies like the SEC (and spare me the porn nonsense – 30 guys in a major agenmcy over x years watching porn is such a drop in the statistical bucket it’s ridiculous, quite aside from its utter irrelevancy to the structural issues that were in play) to restricting its scope of permissible review (remember Phil Gramm’s sneaking a specific statutory exemption from regulation for derivatives trading into a bill ) to the repeal of Depression era limits on financial institutions that had served the economy well to the appointment of regulatory “directors” like Chris Cox who wasn’t so much asleep at the wheel as an unbeliever in using the wheel in the first place, anti-regulatory ideology inspired by Rand/Friedman free market dogma has come home to roost in many places – in a collapsed coal mine, in the Gulf of Mexico, on your grocery store shelves over the past few years (how many tainted products will it take for us to really regulate food production – and how many deaths?), at your bank (if it’s still the samne one you used three years ago) to the house next door that’s been foreclosed.

    But the biggest myth of all is that tax cuts for the rich will create jobs. We've had the lowest tax cuts for the wealthy in our society for eight years under Bush and he has one of the worst records of job creation for any recent president. Those same tax cuts won't expire till the end of the year and there are no jobs.

    Leave a comment:


  • FireCapt1951retired
    replied
    Sharkie,

    I very rarely come to this site anymore but you need to quit making sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • DaSharkie
    replied
    Like I said, politicians are all crooks - it does not matter the party from which they come.

    I blame both parties - you only blame one. See a pattern emerging here?

    And, we disagree fundamentally that a President truly controls an economy. Congress certainly does not. If that were true, our economy ought to be going like gangbusters with all the billions upon billions that a Democratically "controlled" Congress has allowed to be spent (most of which has been added to our national debt.) Little control is effected by a President or Congress - despite their respective thinking that they control all that occurs.

    You also like to ignore, or forget, that the Democrats have "controlled" both houses of Congress for 4 years. They are just as culpable for our current financial situation relating to debt and deficit. If either party that actually "controls" Congress really meant what they said......they would actually reign in spending. Billions could be saved annually be eliminating farm subsidies, tax breaks, restructuring the tax code, actually cutting the ridiculous pork projects, and passing a health care reform bill that might actually benefit the citizenry. Alas, they are politicians and have no desire to act in the best interest of those that they represent, or the nation in general. They serve at the behest of those that contribute to their campaigns, their "friends", and themselves.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Remember, for 6 of President Clinton's years the Congress was "controlled" by Republicans. Responsibility for balancing the Federal budget falls to both parties. However, since Congress controls the finances of the nation and the President simply chooses to sign or not.....
    Conservatives like to blame the increase in government on the Democratic Congress. But Presidents have the power of veto.

    Pens are cheap. A President can sign thousands of vetoes. Unless his opposition can muster a two-thirds majority in both houses of Congress, nothing can be forced on him.

    The determining factor is whether the President has the will to reduce government. If he does, no one can stop him.

    And while Reagan did veto some bills (unlike George W. Bush), in eight years Congress passed only nine bills over Reagan's veto. And only one of those was a budget bill.

    Thus Congress didn't enlarge government in spite of Reagan's determined opposition. He actively participated in the growth of government.

    Let's recap the current commentary about fiscal policy according to conservatives

    Under the “Liberal” Jimmy Carter, the National Debt rose 22% (from just under $700B to just over $900B) and unemployment went down the first three years of his presidency. The year he left office, unemployment had spiked to just over 7 percent.

    Under “Conservative” George W. Bush (Bush-43), the National Debt grew 194%, and the year he left office unemployment had spiked to just over 7 percent.

    Under Ronald Reagan, unemployment continued to rise to nearly 10% following his first year in office.

    Under Barack Obama, unemployment continued to rise to nearly 10% following his first year in office.

    When Bill Clinton left office, he “handed his successor a Recession”, for which the Republican Congress was blameless.

    When Bush-43 left office, the Democratic Congress “handed his successor a Recession”, for which the prior President is blameless.

    When Bush-43 complained incessantly for eight years about the economy and state of the military left to him by his predecessor, that was justified.

    When Barack Obama complains about the economy and the state of the military left to him by his predecessor, that’s “whining”.

    Are you seeing a pattern yet?

    Leave a comment:


  • DaSharkie
    replied
    Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
    Their flawed economic policies aside, the last time they had a reasonable ability to balance the federal budget, they did.
    Remember, for 6 of President Clinton's years the Congress was "controlled" by Republicans. Responsibility for balancing the Federal budget falls to both parties. However, since Congress controls the finances of the nation and the President simply chooses to sign or not.....

    Now, responsibility for blowing that budget out of the water falls with the Republicans since both houses of Congress were under Republican "control" and there was a Republican in the White House.

    However, since 2006 Congress has been under "control" of the Democrats. And for the past 19.5 months there has been a Democrat in the White House. Nothing has changed. The Democrats in "control" have continued to blow BILLLIONS, and add BILLIONS to our national debt.......while criticizing the Republicans for doing the exact same thing just a few years earlier.

    Leave a comment:


  • DaSharkie
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    What else is there? You claim you criticized him many times. Then you should have no problem pointing to examples.
    I will not hunt through 6,000 posts to find those statements. You cannot take me at my word, and you will not believe me, so why should I waste my time?

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Two of those years were Bush years with him holding the troops hostage to get the budgets he submitted passed. The other two years were to fill the hole blown in the economy that resulted from the policies of the Bush Administration. Context is important. Wouldn't you agree?
    You can make all the excuses you want. The Democrats ran to stop the Republicans from spending like "drunken sailors." They lacked the intestinal fortitutde to do what they were elected to do. The majority of their constituents voted for them to stop ridiculous spending, and stop the movement that the Republicans were bringing.

    Congress controls the purse strings of the nation. They control the budget. From 2006-2008 they "controlled" Congress. Both houses. And did NOTHING. From 2008 to now, they have continued to do nothing but spend ridiculously, pass bills that are unpopular with the citizenry, and do the EXACT same thing thing they were sent to correct. And now the voters are ticked off. Who would have thunk it.

    I can't say that the Republicans deserve to be back in power, but it has a slim chance of happening.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    When did you say any of the above as it related to the GOP? I don't recall ever reading any such thing from you.
    I have said it many times here. You have even responded to it.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Isn't democracy great?
    Democracy is great. However, those in "power" should not be surprised when your electorate gets ticked at you for being a moron and disregarding their wishes.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I never claimed to have started a thread critical of President Bush. I have stated many times that I was not the biggest fan of his and disagreed with some of the things he did. You use the starting of threads as some sort of benchmark.
    What else is there? You claim you criticized him many times. Then you should have no problem pointing to examples.

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I am not a member of the GOP. Yet, unlike you, I criticize both parties and Presidents of both parties for making stupid decisions with bankrupting this country. You only criticize the Republlicans, yet when it shown that for the past 4 years under Democratic "control," Congress has added hugely to the national debt.
    Two of those years were Bush years with him holding the troops hostage to get the budgets he submitted passed. The other two years were to fill the hole blown in the economy that resulted from the policies of the Bush Administration. Context is important. Wouldn't you agree?

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    And, you may recall, that many times I have said that the Republicans lost their way and got what they deserved for becoming so stupid and forgetting what they were sent to office to do way back in 1994. The Democrats have acted just as stupidly, and many will suffer the wrath of voters in November.....just as many incumbent Republicans have and will.
    When did you say any of the above as it related to the GOP? I don't recall ever reading any such thing from you.

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Neither party gives a dam about you or me. They rarely act in the best interest of the citizenry - despite what they say.
    Isn't democracy great?

    Leave a comment:


  • Acklan
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Hope your fragile ego isn't too terribly bruised.
    I'll live.

    Leave a comment:


  • scfire86
    replied
    Originally posted by Acklan View Post
    Wow, that hurts soooo much.
    Hope your fragile ego isn't too terribly bruised.

    Leave a comment:


  • abeth86
    replied
    I am not a member of the GOP. Yet, unlike you, I criticize both parties and Presidents of both parties for making stupid decisions with bankrupting this country. You only criticize the Republlicans, yet when it shown that for the past 4 years under Democratic "control," Congress has added hugely to the national debt.
    The majority of Americans are not registered to either party. That doesn't change their political affiliation one iota.

    My mother, for example, claims the mantle of "independent voter" like many Americans. She's voted Republican her whole life. For all intents and purposes, she's a Republican.

    The media loves to succor the minds of Americans with the idea that we're all independent, we form our own opinions, and vote on the issues. As a matter of scientific fact we have limited sources of information on which to form opinions, are wildly ideological, and vote on that ideology. It is very rare to find a voter who will vote for a candidate based solely on their campaign message. Someone who regularly votes Republican is unlikely to vote for a Democrat no matter how closely his issues link up to the voter's, simply because the two parties demonize each other so effectively.

    We seek out the news that fits our world views. We've cliqued off in to two opposing political camps. There's no such thing as a majority group of independent voters, only those who refuse to accept the reality of their voting record.

    I had to swallow all sorts of pride to vote Democrat in 2004. I'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal kind of guy. I believed in Bush's message of "compassionate conservatism". And on many social issues, Bush was remarkably socially liberal. Fiscally and foreign policy wise, however, he was a disaster. He pushed the country in to a war I did not agree with based on very loose intelligence and outright construction of evidence. That was really only the beginning.

    Let me be frank here. I liked Bush. He was a very amiable President that you found it very hard not to identify with. I didn't leave the Republican camp just because of Bush, I left it because of the likes of Trent Lott. I left it because of the likes of Tom DeLay. I left it because the party at large wanted to ram their own idea of morality down the nation's throat, all while getting caught cheating on their own wives and committing various types of fraud.

    The Democrats refuse to push the religious garbage down anyone's throat, and Republicans haven't been fiscally responsible in a decades. A Democrat hasn't taken America in to outright war since Vietnam. They've kept their noses relatively clean, at least in comparison to their GOP counterparts, when it comes to scandals. They argue for the protection of civil rights against majority tyranny. Their flawed economic policies aside, the last time they had a reasonable ability to balance the federal budget, they did.

    These are all things the Republican party used to stand for. If believing in a regulated free market, the protection of civil liberties, true freedom of religion, and a balanced budget makes me a communist just because I told you I voted for a Democrat then I have just proved how wildly ideological you really are. The GOP was all about that stuff. Was the GOP of decades past a bunch of commies?

    Leave a comment:


  • DaSharkie
    replied
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Sharkie and the others never started a post critical of Bush. Just the opposite in fact.
    I never claimed to have started a thread critical of President Bush. I have stated many times that I was not the biggest fan of his and disagreed with some of the things he did. You use the starting of threads as some sort of benchmark.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Amongst many of the other amnesiatic issues the GOP started remembering. In Jan. 2009 the GOP discovered there were deficits, unemployment, and a war in Afghanistan that wasn't going well. Prior to that, there was rarely a mention.
    I am not a member of the GOP. Yet, unlike you, I criticize both parties and Presidents of both parties for making stupid decisions with bankrupting this country. You only criticize the Republlicans, yet when it shown that for the past 4 years under Democratic "control," Congress has added hugely to the national debt.

    And, you may recall, that many times I have said that the Republicans lost their way and got what they deserved for becoming so stupid and forgetting what they were sent to office to do way back in 1994. The Democrats have acted just as stupidly, and many will suffer the wrath of voters in November.....just as many incumbent Republicans have and will.

    Neither party gives a dam about you or me. They rarely act in the best interest of the citizenry - despite what they say.

    Leave a comment:

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