Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Five Myths About the GOP That Just Won't Die

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Yes really. See, your pension invests in stocks, bonds, corporations, and municipal funds. And the market was drastically hyperinflated over the past several years. The crash was inevitable - as all are.
    Really? We went almost 70 years without a crash of that magnitude. Several recessions, but nothing like 2008 or 1929. Stability is/was achievable. It was the idiots who clamor for deregulation because of some stupid Ayn Rand wet dream fantasy that was partially the cause of this meltdown.

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Tell me Mr. Science - how much money did your pension fund lose in the last 3 years? No different than anyone elses 401(k), or their 457 plan.
    Really? Here are the returns for my pension plan.

    2006 13.5%
    2007 11%
    2008 -19%
    2009 18.5%

    It's doing just fine. As far as my 457, I converted the entire portfolio to fixed income accounts in 2007. Didn't lose a thing.

    Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
    In the long-term it is a strong investment for your future. You annot simply run on a 2-4 year cycle. You must commit to long-term savings with all the market's ups and downs.
    How about I sell when people are buying and I buy when people are fearful?

    That seems to work.
    They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

    I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
      The article specifically cited passage at the committee level.

      That only requires a majority vote.

      The GOP held the majority on that committee at that time.

      You're not very bright when it comes to government, are you?
      More rationalizations and excuses from Pelosi's prom date.
      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
        More rationalizations and excuses from Pelosi's prom date.
        Such a witty reply.

        At least you didn't dispute the accuracy of my statement that GOP majorities could have enacted financial regulations but weren't stopped by the Dems as the author of your missive claims.

        Which pretty much makes it BS.
        They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

        I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
          What about those who tried to take care of themselves and circumstances wouldn't allow it?
          Yeah, I see cases of that all the time, sitting outside their Section 8 housing at all hours day and night. All of those young, healthy people with little more to do that sit outside, smoking, drinking, and dealing drugs while the rest of us work hard to pay for their lifestyle.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
            Really? We went almost 70 years without a crash of that magnitude. Several recessions, but nothing like 2008 or 1929. Stability is/was achievable. It was the idiots who clamor for deregulation because of some stupid Ayn Rand wet dream fantasy that was partially the cause of this meltdown.
            Yes really. We had a recession in the early 1980s, the late 1980s, and then were in one in 1992.....You remember "it's the economy, stupid!"

            The stock market screamed up, and up, and up. Banks made ridiculously stupid loans that they knew were wrong to loan out. The financial firms bought up stupidly bundled mortgages that they KNEW were risky. People were making warnings about the stupidly overpriced and inflated stock market and housing market back in the 1990s. But it all kept going. Even after the recession beginning in early 2001, which rather quickly rebounded.

            Now, everything came to a head at the same time, and everything went Poof! all at once. Long time in coming, and people were not paying attention while they were not saving, blowing huge amounts of money on large, overpriced, overvalued stocks, mutual funds, houses, and cars every 2 years.

            Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
            Really? Here are the returns for my pension plan.

            2006 13.5%
            2007 11%
            2008 -19%
            2009 18.5%

            It's doing just fine. As far as my 457, I converted the entire portfolio to fixed income accounts in 2007. Didn't lose a thing.
            Exactly, so what are you bitching about? My savings and investments have just about rebounded as well. Amazing what happens when you make well-planned, firm, solid investment moves, isn't it?

            However, I asked about your PENSION FUND. You know, the one you and your employer paid into for retirement like most local, state, and federal employees have. Not your 401(k), your 457, or your 403.

            I will bet that the pension funds (that invest in many of the same stocks as you do in your personal plans) have lost a lot of money, but then made it back. See.....LONG-TERM. Not the short-term.

            Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
            How about I sell when people are buying and I buy when people are fearful?

            That seems to work.
            That is what you do to make money to a point. However you, and a lot of other people appear to whine about the current crash. Go figure. Stock portfolios are a long-term financial tool and, like I said, cannot just be whined about because of a 2 year hiccup/correction/meltdown/whatever you want to call it.
            "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

            The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

            "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

            "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

            www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by mcwops View Post
              Yeah, I see cases of that all the time, sitting outside their Section 8 housing at all hours day and night. All of those young, healthy people with little more to do that sit outside, smoking, drinking, and dealing drugs while the rest of us work hard to pay for their lifestyle.
              Well, you know......only about 47% of the U.S. population actually pays any income taxes. The top few percent of the taxpayers in this country actually pay the vast majority of income taxes collected by the IRS.

              Liberals are fine with this. They despise people who have a lot money and want to take much of it....unless it is from another liberal. A-la John Forbes Kerry and his yacht which he caught trying to dodge nearly a half million in taxes on. Yet it is conservatives who are always for the rich.
              "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

              The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

              "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

              "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

              www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

              Comment


              • #37
                One thing I find interesting, when the Democrats are slamming the wealthy, is that they only target the business owners and operators. When was the last time you heard outrage from the libs about a ball player making several million a year, or a movie star getting a million dollars for saying one line in a movie. Yet a business owner, who employees hundreds or thousands of Americans, and creates a product or service, is a bastard.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I don't care about an individual's race. Perhaps you think you know me, "buddy", but you don't. If you go back and reread the posts you will see that I am simply making a statement. Read no further into it "buddy."
                  I won't bother reposting the rest of your response to my squashing of your race baiting. Your statement clearly tried to tie every Democrat to the crushing of african-american rights in the 1960's. This is not only historical fantasy, it's race baiting.

                  You're right, I don't know you. Why would I want to know someone who carelessly repeats race baiting talking points? My apologies for ever thinking you were a fireman on a firefighter's forum, also.

                  It's payouts are low, you can do better over time with investments that are well-placed. It's intake is rapidly becoming insufficient - or perhaps you have not heard.
                  Sure, you *can* do better. If you had bothered to read what I posted about social security before you blindly responded with nothing but more talking points and spite, you'd see that I clearly understand the problems facing SSI in the future. I simply disagree with some of the proposed methods of "fixing" it.

                  See (now try to follow the bouncing ball), Social Security promises future payouts based upon what they they future income will be. Money is not saved - it has been spent. In the next 15-20 years it will begin paying out more than it takes in. (Still following? Good.) Now, that additional payout is going to come from us, the workers, those not retired. There will be fewer of us, and taxes WILL go up simply to pay for it because the dimwits - in BOTH political parties - had the lack of intelligence and foresight to actually spend all the money, so it is no longer solvent. Bernie Madoff went to jail for doing what the government is doing.
                  Since you seem to believe I'm an idiot, (still following? Good.), I won't really bother going back and forth with you. You'll keep blindly parroting on talking points, and I'll keep doing what I can to keep the likes of you out of public office. At least you understand that SSI's issues come from fiscal irresponsibility on both sides, which is more than can be said for most.

                  Yeah, I see cases of that all the time, sitting outside their Section 8 housing at all hours day and night. All of those young, healthy people with little more to do that sit outside, smoking, drinking, and dealing drugs while the rest of us work hard to pay for their lifestyle.
                  I doubt they'd be sitting outside their Section 8 housing smoking and drinking if they had real opportunities for advancement in life. The evidence shows it. Of course, you can malign the poor to their fate all day, and they'll just keep sitting outside their S8 house dealing drugs to pay the bills. Last I checked, a job at McDonald's doesn't pay the bills, and that's about all some of these people are qualified for. Not for lack of ambition, but lack of education and opportunity.

                  Well, you know......only about 47% of the U.S. population actually pays any income taxes. The top few percent of the taxpayers in this country actually pay the vast majority of income taxes collected by the IRS.
                  No, they don't. It's more like the top 50% pays the majority of income taxes. Regardless, someone making $30,000 a year paying 25% and someone making $1.6 million a year paying 35% doesn't even compare. The lower earner paying less taxes feels those taxes in ways that the rich man never will.

                  Real incomes for the middle class haven't changed much at all since the 1970's. Real incomes for the richest have exploded 400% in the last decade. Something isn't right there, and it has a lot to do with tax policies. Wages have declined, the rich have become richer, and now the country is locked in a partisan debate between reactionaries and ultra-liberals. Both sides realize that something is wrong, and they're blaming each other for the problem. Nobody notices that the problem erupted when the tax codes were futzed by Reagan? Really? Nobody notices that the problem was exacerbated by deregulation and new tax loopholes allowing corporations to ship our jobs to China for cheaper labor? Really?

                  Liberals are fine with this. They despise people who have a lot money and want to take much of it....unless it is from another liberal. A-la John Forbes Kerry and his yacht which he caught trying to dodge nearly a half million in taxes on. Yet it is conservatives who are always for the rich.
                  You're just full of ad hominems and scarecrows, aren't you? Kerry didn't "dodge" anything, unless he owed a tax and never paid it. Instead, he kept the boat elsewhere and under the proprietary umbrella of his wife's company, thus he didn't technically owe a dime. You say it was a dodge, I say it is a symptom of a wider taxation problem. If the rich are able to avoid paying taxes so easily, why haven't we fixed the problem? Could it be because the wealthy have a commanding control of government? You tell me.

                  One thing I find interesting, when the Democrats are slamming the wealthy, is that they only target the business owners and operators. When was the last time you heard outrage from the libs about a ball player making several million a year, or a movie star getting a million dollars for saying one line in a movie. Yet a business owner, who employees hundreds or thousands of Americans, and creates a product or service, is a bastard.
                  He's a bastard for refusing to pay his workers an acceptable, living wage because his bottom line might be hurt a little bit. He's a bastard for skimming millions off the top that he didn't rightfully earn through his own hard work. He's not a bastard if he does the opposite.

                  You seem to be under the impression that every business owner creates a product or provides a service, and that is simply not true. Most corporate leaders don't provide anything but tacit guidance to their department, and leave the real work to those beneath them. The cashier provided me the service, not the VP of Human Resources who ultimately leads the front end. For sitting on their rear ends and crunching numbers, something anyone with entry-level college math could do, they're paid millions? There was a time in the past when a business owner would happily reduce his own take home to ensure his employees could afford a nice place to live, food for their family, and a top notch education. That's all been traded for minimum wage jobs that roughly equate to slave labor.

                  There's nothing conservative about supporting that. Nothing at all. A true conservative would ask why the modern business class is destroying family values by destroying family budgets. He would ask why the modern business class is so eager to leave this country high and dry at tax time through tax havens, placing this great country in graver fiscal risk. You, on the other hand, are a cheap-labor conservative. You believe that corporations should run roughshod over the rights of man because "they earned it".

                  That is what you do to make money to a point. However you, and a lot of other people appear to whine about the current crash. Go figure. Stock portfolios are a long-term financial tool and, like I said, cannot just be whined about because of a 2 year hiccup/correction/meltdown/whatever you want to call it.
                  Stock portfolios are a sideways financial tool, meant to be funded with money that you did not need and if lost would not be destructive. They are no more long-term than my desire to eat is satisfied by a sandwich. Anyone who gambles their retirement on the financial success of corporations they have no controlling stake in is a fool.

                  This isn't a 2-year hiccup, it's no correction. It's a financial disaster the likes of which hasn't been seen before. The Great Depression's causes weren't as great, nor as widely capable of destruction, as our own self-delusion titled "great recession". Ten years from now we'll be going back to the drawing board to establish another New Deal, and it'll all be the fault of those who believed that corporate greed was an essentially good thing. America isn't about free markets and capitalism, it's about personal liberty and the protection of civil rights. I tire of hearing that anything offending the sensibilities of free market capitalists should offend my sensibilities as an American. What offends my sensibilities as an American is that Verizon has more rights than I do. If Verizon steals my money, I can't sue unless I pay out the nose to fight them in court. If I owe Verizon money, they'll haul me in front of a court commissioner and have my wages garnished.

                  It's a joke, and a very bad one. That you continue to think your interests are served by (as I've said multiple times now) blindly parroting on the right wing's talking points doesn't amuse me like it would have ten years ago, it scares me. The right wing has so far removed itself from truly conservative ideals that they're something else entirely.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by abeth86 View Post

                    I doubt they'd be sitting outside their Section 8 housing smoking and drinking if they had real opportunities for advancement in life. The evidence shows it. Of course, you can malign the poor to their fate all day, and they'll just keep sitting outside their S8 house dealing drugs to pay the bills. Last I checked, a job at McDonald's doesn't pay the bills, and that's about all some of these people are qualified for. Not for lack of ambition, but lack of education and opportunity.
                    Wow you have that completely WRONG. AMBITION is the very thing they lack. Our country offers everybody all the education and opportunity they can handle. But when the government will give everyone a free handout, those without ambition will sit back and collect theirs.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                      Such a witty reply.

                      At least you didn't dispute the accuracy of my statement that GOP majorities could have enacted financial regulations but weren't stopped by the Dems as the author of your missive claims.

                      Which pretty much makes it BS.
                      EDIT:

                      I have changed my comments. I wont mix it up with you while you can't respond.

                      Hope it's really temporary.
                      Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-19-2010, 09:36 PM.
                      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by mcwops View Post
                        Wow you have that completely WRONG. AMBITION is the very thing they lack. Our country offers everybody all the education and opportunity they can handle. But when the government will give everyone a free handout, those without ambition will sit back and collect theirs.
                        No, it offers a load of debt (if you qualify) to go to school. That's if your grades in school were enough to get that far. This country offers very little to those without means.

                        Think about it. How are you going to afford going to school, even with a loan to cover tuition, and hold down whatever job you have, and pay the bills and raise the kids, all at the same time? It's a lot harder than you think. Or should I say, it sounds really easy until you try to do it.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                          No, it offers a load of debt (if you qualify) to go to school. That's if your grades in school were enough to get that far. This country offers very little to those without means.

                          Think about it. How are you going to afford going to school, even with a loan to cover tuition, and hold down whatever job you have, and pay the bills and raise the kids, all at the same time? It's a lot harder than you think. Or should I say, it sounds really easy until you try to do it.
                          That's really a crock.

                          I worked two jobs and went to school at night. I worked Full time during the week and worked 14 hour days on weekends and obtained my first college degree.

                          I am finishing my third degree this month, I work full time, have two kids and zero free time.

                          I paid for it all myself. I have no loans now, I paid off my loans from my first degree over ten years ago.

                          Yes, IT WAS HARD. Anything worth doing, usually is.

                          We need to stop making excuses.
                          I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                          "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                          "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            What about a single mom who can't? Did you have kids when you were doing all that? It's a lot easier to do when you're the only one you have to care about.

                            I accept that there are some who just won't do it because they lack the initiative. I won't accept that all of them lack the initiative. That's a very broad blanket to toss over a rather large group of people. There's a fairly large chunk of those who are too poor who quite honestly cannot surmount the hurdles to get ahead in life. Hell, even the way welfare works, it almost penalizes you for climbing out of the hole. If you surpass a specific income mark you lose your benefits, and thus lose every bit of traction you had in getting as far as you did.

                            Like I said before, criticize the structure, not the moral imperative. We're supposed to help our fellow man. Some of them don't want be helped, some of them want to abuse the system and get that free ride. That's when you start finding them and cutting them off. Calling every poor shmuck in section 8 housing an ambition-less waste of humanity is a bit crude, don't you think?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                              What about a single mom who can't? Did you have kids when you were doing all that? It's a lot easier to do when you're the only one you have to care about.
                              Actually, because I went at night, I had a lot of "single mothers" in my class.

                              Hey, it's not easy, that's the point.

                              I accept that there are some who just won't do it because they lack the initiative. I won't accept that all of them lack the initiative. That's a very broad blanket to toss over a rather large group of people. There's a fairly large chunk of those who are too poor who quite honestly cannot surmount the hurdles to get ahead in life. Hell, even the way welfare works, it almost penalizes you for climbing out of the hole. If you surpass a specific income mark you lose your benefits, and thus lose every bit of traction you had in getting as far as you did.
                              Here's one, my income was based on ten bucks an hour when I did it. I shared an apartment, had no help from my family. It's possible, but it's not easy.

                              Like I said before, criticize the structure, not the moral imperative. We're supposed to help our fellow man. Some of them don't want be helped, some of them want to abuse the system and get that free ride. That's when you start finding them and cutting them off. Calling every poor shmuck in section 8 housing an ambition-less waste of humanity is a bit crude, don't you think?
                              The structure worked for me and a lot of others.

                              The resources are out there, you have to work hard, kick, scratch, and fight, but this country is nothing but opportunity.
                              I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                              "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                              "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The resources are out there, you have to work hard, kick, scratch, and fight, but this country is nothing but opportunity.
                                Your $10 an hour that long ago was far more than what most poor folks make these days. Today you're lucky to get paid $10, and more likely to be paid $7-$8 an hour. Adjusted for inflation, that's like being paid $4 an hour when you were making $10. (That is, assuming you were going to school in the 90's.)

                                You just don't get it. Real incomes are collapsing, and as income falls opportunities close off. Sure, you can kick and scratch your way to all kinds of things, but these days some people just can't afford to risk it all on *maybe* getting a job when they're done with school.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X