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Five Myths About the GOP That Just Won't Die

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  • #16
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    The GOP no longer remotely tries to embrace minority issues, has been on a jihad against organized labor (something Lincoln embraced)
    Organized labor has hurt a lot of things in this country. I read an article last night in Reader's Digest (not the best source I will give you that) reporting that in California alone the teacher's unions spent $212,000,000 in lobbying over the past 10 years. Imagine what all that money could have done if it were spent on education!

    Unions spend incredible amounts of money, mostly on Democratic/liberal/progressive causes (note that I am not even speaking of candidates) and act as though they have political clout......and you decry the GOP's lack of kow-towing to them? The Democrats lap up union money like crazy while screaming about how the GOP is beholden to special interests - while ignoring their own political puppetmasters.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    and courts big business (the upper echelons of our society) at the expense of the middle class.
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The GOP is the ONLY party that takes money from business groups. You are kidding right? You cannot be naive enough to actually think that the Dems give one bit about people? Politicians are the most corrupt group to walk the face of the Earth. Come on scfire86 - despite your claims to the contrary, you are smarter than that.

    The Democratitc party and candidates takes huge donations from Wall Street, banking, finance, business, and special interest groups - just like the GOP does. You, once again, choose to ignore one party's actions while crying about the other party doing the same thing. Used to be that you were better than that.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    One would have to look beyond a cute email that popped into one's Inbox to know the story of the GOP is one of a complete flip flop from the mid 1800's.
    As the Democrats have - remember all those no votes by Democrats against the Civil Rights Act? Funny how you forget that.

    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    Chief, can you point to one conservative ideological standard that can be remotely considered successful in the last 30 years?
    Don't confuse conservatism with the GOP - they are two different things.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
      How did the Dems do this when they were in the minority? They could have easily been outvoted by the GOP majority. The housing industry was the only bright spot in the Bush economy. They weren't about to slow it down.
      You obviously did not pay attention to the news when the Republicans wanted to reign in spending by Fannie and Freddie while they were stupidly guarnateeing loans that they knew were overly risky.

      And - despite your claims to the contrary - you are smarter than that. Take the ideological blinders off and you will be enlightened by so many things.

      Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
      I'm thinking folks with 401(k)'s are just pleased as punch that "W" has confidence in their owning a piece of their retirement.
      A 401(k) does the same thing as your pension system scfire86. It invests in the stock market. And returns more than any money invested in the government sanctioned Ponzi scheme that we know as Social Security.
      "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

      The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

      "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

      "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

      www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
        How did the Dems do this when they were in the minority? They could have easily been outvoted by the GOP majority.

        Gee I don't know scfire, why didn't the 9/11 bill pass, the Dems had a majority. They could have easily outvoted the GOP...right?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
          While I'm more than happy to debate the merits of the first 4 points, I refuse to accept the last point. Attempting to paint the civil rights debate as Republican v. Democrat is disingenuous at best.

          History lesson, shall we?...
          Great, Soros has another recruit for this forum. Or is this just scfire lecturing to himself.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by mcwops View Post
            Gee I don't know scfire, why didn't the 9/11 bill pass, the Dems had a majority. They could have easily outvoted the GOP...right?
            The article specifically cited passage at the committee level.

            That only requires a majority vote.

            The GOP held the majority on that committee at that time.

            You're not very bright when it comes to government, are you?
            They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

            I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

            Comment


            • #21
              As the Democrats have - remember all those no votes by Democrats against the Civil Rights Act? Funny how you forget that.
              I tried to be nice the first time. I won't be nice again.

              Race baiting is perhaps the single most reprehensible political practice around, and that it remains en vogue today reflects only on those who continue to do it. That's you, buddy. Congratulations on knowing nothing about the Civil Rights movement beyond what your partisan hack of a radio guy told you, and congratulations on thinking it's totally OK to rewrite history so that a specific race should hate a whole party. Just for political gain.

              You're a fireman. You're supposed to be better than that. Now cut it out.

              A 401(k) does the same thing as your pension system scfire86. It invests in the stock market. And returns more than any money invested in the government sanctioned Ponzi scheme that we know as Social Security.
              Social Security is a guaranteed pension, and as such is not supposed to be beholden to market fluctuations. Its payouts are set by government, and its intake is set by government. Calling the single most important government act of the last century a Ponzi scheme reeks of blind partisan hatred. Where would so many grandmas be tonight, with their retirement funds wiped out by the recession, without the meager payout they get from Social Security?

              There are plenty of reasons to want to reform Social Security. Calling it a Ponzi scheme shows you know absolutely nothing of how it works, how its paid for, and that you have absolutely no interest in doing anything but repeat talking points.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by DaSharkie View Post
                A 401(k) does the same thing as your pension system scfire86. It invests in the stock market. And returns more than any money invested in the government sanctioned Ponzi scheme that we know as Social Security.
                Really? You must have missed the last couple of years.
                They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                  I tried to be nice the first time. I won't be nice again.

                  Race baiting is perhaps the single most reprehensible political practice around, and that it remains en vogue today reflects only on those who continue to do it. That's you, buddy. Congratulations on knowing nothing about the Civil Rights movement beyond what your partisan hack of a radio guy told you, and congratulations on thinking it's totally OK to rewrite history so that a specific race should hate a whole party. Just for political gain.

                  You're a fireman. You're supposed to be better than that. Now cut it out.



                  Social Security is a guaranteed pension, and as such is not supposed to be beholden to market fluctuations. Its payouts are set by government, and its intake is set by government. Calling the single most important government act of the last century a Ponzi scheme reeks of blind partisan hatred. Where would so many grandmas be tonight, with their retirement funds wiped out by the recession, without the meager payout they get from Social Security?

                  There are plenty of reasons to want to reform Social Security. Calling it a Ponzi scheme shows you know absolutely nothing of how it works, how its paid for, and that you have absolutely no interest in doing anything but repeat talking points.
                  On the first bit - any race based politics is disgusting to me. A great man wanted a color blind society and we have many who are fighting hard to ensure we don't get there - quota's, minority incentive programs, affirmitive action etc. As a relatively young white male - it disgusts me to see the overt racial discrimination. (and yes - it is racial discrimination when race is used as the criterea for elgibility)

                  On the second bit - I do see Social Security as a ponzi scheme. The system works by taking money from those who are currently working, skimming the top for the feds special interests and then spreading what's left to those on the recepient list. It works if you have more people working than retired. It falls apart when you have more people drawing incomes than you have people paying into it. Add medicare into it and its even worse.

                  There is a reason why the CBO thinks it will be bankerupt by the time I retire in 30 years. I have to save for myself to ensure I will have the retirement I want. I figure the SS I pay in will never come back to me - sad isn't it.

                  I also figure I will be one of the 'rich' people at retirement and I expect many of those who never planned for thier retirements to 'redistribute' my wealth because its not fair I have more than they do.

                  (coming from the person who sees himself as picking up the tab for the entitlement frenzy and all of the freebies given out to low income families. If people lived within thier means, many would not be in the mess they are in now. I lived within our means and instead of being rewarded - I get the bill. I want MY morgage reduced. I want the $8000 incentive for owning a house I can afford. Nope - just the bill because I still work and can pay taxes)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The nots so new FNG View Post
                    (coming from the person who sees himself as picking up the tab for the entitlement frenzy and all of the freebies given out to low income families. If people lived within thier means, many would not be in the mess they are in now. I lived within our means and instead of being rewarded - I get the bill. I want MY morgage reduced. I want the $8000 incentive for owning a house I can afford. Nope - just the bill because I still work and can pay taxes)
                    Then you will appreciate the fact that CRA loans had a lesser foreclosure rate than non-CRA loans. Seems first time home buyers are more interested in keeping their homes than those who took out equity to buy stuff, rental units, and second homes.

                    Which was the point.
                    They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                    I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      On the second bit - I do see Social Security as a ponzi scheme. The system works by taking money from those who are currently working, skimming the top for the feds special interests and then spreading what's left to those on the recepient list. It works if you have more people working than retired. It falls apart when you have more people drawing incomes than you have people paying into it. Add medicare into it and its even worse.
                      The similarity is there, sure. However, the basis is that those who work are supporting those who are retired - and thus unable to work in the same sense that you or I are able to. A ponzi scheme in its very basic form is designed to enrich one man at the expense of multiple victims, whereas state-funded pensions at their most basic form are a moral prerogative. We're supposed to care for our elderly. One is bad, the other is not. So while you can criticize the structure, the concept itself is not the problem.

                      There is a reason why the CBO thinks it will be bankerupt by the time I retire in 30 years. I have to save for myself to ensure I will have the retirement I want. I figure the SS I pay in will never come back to me - sad isn't it.
                      It probably will be bankrupt if something isn't done about it. When it was first put in to place, the expected amount of time someone would be pulling it was less than 10 years. You usually died before you got too old. Now we have advanced medicine and better living conditions, and as such we live much longer - putting more strain on Social Security. Raising the age at which you are able to collect it is one possibility, but it would also have to come with age discrimination reform of some kind as in some jobs there's mandatory retirement ages. Those ages probably would not link up with SSI. Other possibilities include raising everyone's withholding, which would be unpopular for obvious reasons, or reducing payouts. Reducing payouts would pretty much defeat the purpose anyways, as the idea is that we keep payments up with inflation and the prevailing cost of living.

                      There's no silver bullet. Privatizing the whole thing simply isn't an option, as the most recent recession proved.

                      Either way, it shouldn't be a partisan issue. The GOP has hated SSI since it was born in the 30's, and it's since become a deeply rooted conservative pet hate. Funny that those same conservatives that hate it so much are probably relying on it later in life.

                      I also figure I will be one of the 'rich' people at retirement and I expect many of those who never planned for thier retirements to 'redistribute' my wealth because its not fair I have more than they do.
                      There are very solid economic reasons to redistribute the wealth of someone who gets paid a billion a year. They didn't do most of the labor involved in creating that wealth, merely skimmed it, and removing that much money from the economy in to one man's pocket creates bubbles and busts. I will agree with you that there are absolutely no good economic reasons to redistribute anyone's retirement, however, as that's a fairly fixed amount that will be spent over the remainder of one's life.

                      (coming from the person who sees himself as picking up the tab for the entitlement frenzy and all of the freebies given out to low income families. If people lived within thier means, many would not be in the mess they are in now. I lived within our means and instead of being rewarded - I get the bill. I want MY morgage reduced. I want the $8000 incentive for owning a house I can afford. Nope - just the bill because I still work and can pay taxes)
                      There really isn't that much of an entitlement frenzy, as you say. SSI and medicare were pretty well designed with the elderly in mind. Welfare and unemployment aren't the free rides anyone claims they are - my family was on welfare for a few years when I was young, and it was a fairly painful existence as I remember it. Unemployment is necessary because it's a regular stimulus in to the economy, and prevents someone from becoming homeless and thus not searching for work while they get another job. Welfare comes in many forms, but the basic principle is that nobody should starve but for lack of trying. You generally have to be working and making *something* for welfare to keep you propped up.

                      Poverty is a fact of life, and tossing the impoverished to their untimely fates may sound very nice to you when you see the tax bill. Go and see what life is like for those too poor to get anywhere and you might change your mind. There's nothing against conservative values in helping the poor. The very conservative Church was helping the poor before it became the government's purview in the modern era.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        I tried to be nice the first time. I won't be nice again.
                        If you say so "buddy."

                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        Race baiting is perhaps the single most reprehensible political practice around, and that it remains en vogue today reflects only on those who continue to do it. That's you, buddy.
                        I don't care about an individual's race. Perhaps you think you know me, "buddy", but you don't. If you go back and reread the posts you will see that I am simply making a statement. Read no further into it "buddy."

                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        Congratulations on knowing nothing about the Civil Rights movement beyond what your partisan hack of a radio guy told you, and congratulations on thinking it's totally OK to rewrite history so that a specific race should hate a whole party. Just for political gain.
                        And what makes you think that I hate anyone's race? Just because I am a conservative?

                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        You're a fireman. You're supposed to be better than that. Now cut it out.
                        I am not a fireman. And you may not like what I have to say, but free speech remains - like it or not.



                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        Social Security is a guaranteed pension, and as such is not supposed to be beholden to market fluctuations. Its payouts are set by government, and its intake is set by government. Calling the single most important government act of the last century a Ponzi scheme reeks of blind partisan hatred.
                        It's payouts are low, you can do better over time with investments that are well-placed. It's intake is rapidly becoming insufficient - or perhaps you have not heard.

                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        Where would so many grandmas be tonight, with their retirement funds wiped out by the recession, without the meager payout they get from Social Security?
                        I do not know where they would be. To use your friend's (scfire86) line, I don't like to deal with hypotheticals. That being said, why must the government provide for every person's needs?

                        Originally posted by abeth86 View Post
                        There are plenty of reasons to want to reform Social Security. Calling it a Ponzi scheme shows you know absolutely nothing of how it works, how its paid for, and that you have absolutely no interest in doing anything but repeat talking points.
                        Do you know what a Ponzi scheme is? Consider that there are now 3.4 supporters for every 1 retiree. In 20 years, there will be 2 for every 1. When it started there were about 30 workers for every retiree.

                        See (now try to follow the bouncing ball), Social Security promises future payouts based upon what they they future income will be. Money is not saved - it has been spent. In the next 15-20 years it will begin paying out more than it takes in. (Still following? Good.) Now, that additional payout is going to come from us, the workers, those not retired. There will be fewer of us, and taxes WILL go up simply to pay for it because the dimwits - in BOTH political parties - had the lack of intelligence and foresight to actually spend all the money, so it is no longer solvent. Bernie Madoff went to jail for doing what the government is doing.
                        "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                        The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                        "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                        "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                        www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                          Really? You must have missed the last couple of years.
                          Yes really. See, your pension invests in stocks, bonds, corporations, and municipal funds. And the market was drastically hyperinflated over the past several years. The crash was inevitable - as all are.

                          Tell me Mr. Science - how much money did your pension fund lose in the last 3 years? No different than anyone elses 401(k), or their 457 plan.

                          In the long-term it is a strong investment for your future. You cannot simply run on a 2-4 year cycle. You must commit to long-term savings with all the market's ups and downs.
                          "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                          The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                          "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                          "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                          www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by abeth86 View Post

                            Social Security is a guaranteed pension, and as such is not supposed to be beholden to market fluctuations.
                            Since when is life supposed to have guarantees. Even the government can not guarantee anything, especially on the scale of Social Security. At my age, I can not depend on social security, and have my own retirement plans, yet I am still forced to contribute to social security to prop up the system for a few more years. It is not the government's role in society to take care of those who can not or will not take care of themselves.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I think this fits both parties pretty well:

                              "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mcwops View Post
                                It is not the government's role in society to take care of those who can not or will not take care of themselves.
                                What about those who tried to take care of themselves and circumstances wouldn't allow it?
                                They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                                I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                                Comment

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