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  • #61
    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
    So how long should we stay? Define victory? More importantly (and you might not have known this), wars are expensive in both human and fiscal terms.

    What are you willing to pay or sacrfice in order to maintain your view of how foreign policy should be conducted? Are you willing to pay higher taxes? Are you enlisting?

    The decision to pull out wasn't made at random. I'm certain there was input given by those who have a far better perspective than what you get on Faux News.

    Besides, I have faith the men and women defending our country are up to the task. I'm guessing you don't.
    I have tremendous faith in our armed forces. That being said, I don't beleive we should tie one hand behind thier backs.

    That statement that we will begin pulling out creates great doubt in the every day Afghan. It causes them to question if we are really in it for the long haul and and what point we will leave them exposed to the Taliban. It creates a lot of questions for them about our ability to protect them if they cooperate with us.

    And we wonder why they don't want to tell us who and where the Taliban are.

    Yes, wars are expensive, and yes, young men and women die in wars. But they are often necessary.

    If it takes 15 years to do the job, so be it. If it takes 20, so be it.

    And last time I checked, the Army wasn't looking for any 51 year olds.

    I stand by my statement. The president has no right being CIC and is a clown. It's too bad really.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
      I never meant it as an insult. I used it as a describor.
      Oh come on... if you're not going to be honest, what's the point?
      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
        So how long should we stay? Define victory? More importantly (and you might not have known this), wars are expensive in both human and fiscal terms.
        Define victory... we heard that a lot when the debate about Afhganistan was really hot on TV. When I hear that question, it makes me wonder if Americans with their insistence on instant gratification could every stomach World War II today? I think Neville Chamberlain would be a popular figure here in America today.

        It makes me sad and makes me have ten times the respect for my father's father's generation.

        What are you willing to pay or sacrfice in order to maintain your view of how foreign policy should be conducted? Are you willing to pay higher taxes? Are you enlisting?
        Higher taxes... yes, if that's where the money had to go.

        Enlist. Do you have to enlist to support a war? Better tell the millions of Americans who made this country strong and helped us to win in Wars past.

        The decision to pull out wasn't made at random. I'm certain there was input given by those who have a far better perspective than what you get on Faux News.
        A lot of them aren't enlisted. Besides the decision to pull out may not be wrong, to announce the date was.

        Besides, I have faith the men and women defending our country are up to the task. I'm guessing you don't.
        Yet, you didn't think they could win it in Iraq. Interesting.
        Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-08-2010, 06:18 PM.
        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

        Comment


        • #64
          When I was in Grenada (Urgent Fury) and in Desert Storm/Desert Shield, there was no announced pull out until the job was done. Mission Accomplished.

          As for the Taliban towel heads are concerned, the job isn't done until they are exterminated permanently.

          And as to what cost??? I don't care. I'd rather see 1,000 warriors die in defending this Country, than to have another 3,000-5,000 civilians die of what they didn't see coming, or sign up for.

          Obama has failed the U.S. as POTUS on just about every level. He is 50/50 with me concerning the Military and its needs and objectives to date.

          FM1
          I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

          Originally posted by EastKyFF
          "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
            Yes, wars are expensive, and yes, young men and women die in wars. But they are often necessary.

            If it takes 15 years to do the job, so be it. If it takes 20, so be it.
            You have no problems sending young men and women to die in wars.

            But you don't want to run inside a burning building because it is too dangerous.

            Maybe once you are ready to lay down your own life for your fellow man, then you should talk about other peoples lives.
            Last edited by MarcusKspn; 08-09-2010, 07:23 AM.
            "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
              And as to what cost??? I don't care. I'd rather see 1,000 warriors die in defending this Country, than to have another 3,000-5,000 civilians die of what they didn't see coming, or sign up for.
              How many US civilians have died at the hands of terrorists during the 10 years prior to 9/11?

              How many soldiers have died fighting the terrorists since 9/11?
              "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                So how long should we stay? Define victory? More importantly (and you might not have known this), wars are expensive in both human and fiscal terms.
                It takes as long as it takes. You break it, then you fix it. No different than the ridiculous stupidity of the Viet Nam era where you fell your enemy every move and get afraid of bad press and ticking people off. Politicians should not run wars - we have seen what happens when politicians stick their heads in it.

                Political Correctness should not exist in war. War is ugly, bloody, deadly, and a failure of the politicians. When the politicians decide that they no longer want to do their jobs - young men die in combat. War is the furthering of diplomacy by other means. Remember this about our current enemy: you cannot negotiate with people who are willing to load themselves with C-4 or Semtex, walk into a market full of women, children, and people they do not know and say "Alahy Akhbar" while they pull the cord. It is a waste of your time. Alas, the moron politicians adn the twits at the U.N. think we can all sit down and talk over tea.

                Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                Besides, I have faith the men and women defending our country are up to the task. I'm guessing you don't.
                I have faith in our men and women in uniform - our country lacks the intestinal fortitude for a bloody war where people die. War is despicable and disgusting, unfortunately politicians and society have always seemed to glamorize and romanticize it.

                When a nation commits to war, they need to understand that Warriors will die. Civilians will die. Mistakes will be made, and people will pay for it with their lives. Even as World War II was winding down in 1945, our nation grew very weary of it. During Korea our nation was weary of war. Viet Nam as well. Same when Somalia took longer than expected. Now, we grow weary of Afghanistan and Iraq. Our nation, and western culture lacks the will to support operations.
                "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  I have tremendous faith in our armed forces. That being said, I don't beleive we should tie one hand behind thier backs.
                  So how is setting a deadline tying a hand behind their back?

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  That statement that we will begin pulling out creates great doubt in the every day Afghan. It causes them to question if we are really in it for the long haul and and what point we will leave them exposed to the Taliban. It creates a lot of questions for them about our ability to protect them if they cooperate with us.
                  It also lets them know they better become rapidly capable of taking care of themselves.

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  And we wonder why they don't want to tell us who and where the Taliban are.
                  It's not like they were telling before.

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  Yes, wars are expensive, and yes, young men and women die in wars. But they are often necessary.
                  Easy to say when you're not the one being asked to risk life and limb.

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  If it takes 15 years to do the job, so be it. If it takes 20, so be it.
                  See above post.

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  And last time I checked, the Army wasn't looking for any 51 year olds.
                  Then are you willing to pay higher taxes to fund your position?

                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  I stand by my statement. The president has no right being CIC and is a clown. It's too bad really.
                  Not really. He has every right to be CIC. And he was elected by a majority of the voters. You might have missed that.
                  They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                  I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    Oh come on... if you're not going to be honest, what's the point?
                    I meant it exactly in that way. The same way conservatives used the term after the 2000 election. Or do you believe they were being insulting?

                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    Define victory... we heard that a lot when the debate about Afhganistan was really hot on TV. When I hear that question, it makes me wonder if Americans with their insistence on instant gratification could every stomach World War II today? I think Neville Chamberlain would be a popular figure here in America today.

                    It makes me sad and makes me have ten times the respect for my father's father's generation.
                    I have enormous respect for your father's father's generation. I have even more respect for this one's military committment given that none of them were drafted. Your ancestor's generation were willing to accept things like gas rationing and few choices for consumer goods. Americans (both liberal and conservative) aren't even willing to discuss higher taxes to pay for this war.

                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    Higher taxes... yes, if that's where the money had to go.
                    Let me know when a conservative elected proposes the idea.

                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    Enlist. Do you have to enlist to support a war? Better tell the millions of Americans who made this country strong and helped us to win in Wars past.
                    It's easy to talk the talk, walking the walk and putting one's *** on the line is something I don't see in those who are the president's critics. I would hear the conservatives around the coffee table rant and rave about supporting Bush in Iraq. Especially when protests were in the news. When I would ask about their date of enlistment (they were all that young), the backstroking was of Olympic caliber. The typical comment was that they didn't have time, or just had a new baby, or were trying to buy a house. I would just nod and smile. That would be the last of those types of comments.


                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    A lot of them aren't enlisted. Besides the decision to pull out may not be wrong, to announce the date was.
                    Not if you're in Afghanistan and know big brother is leaving. Fear is a great motivator. Something that isn't in place now since they know the US is present.

                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    Yet, you didn't think they could win it in Iraq. Interesting.
                    Again, we'll see what happens when the pullout occurs. I never had doubt of the ability of our men and women in uniform, I always questioned the motivation of those who sent them there.
                    They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                    I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
                      Obama has failed the U.S. as POTUS on just about every level. He is 50/50 with me concerning the Military and its needs and objectives to date.

                      FM1
                      In what ways?
                      They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                      I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
                        This is fits right in.....

                        The Enola Gay is now rebuilt and restored to flying condition, and passed all flight requirements and tests.

                        It is now on tour to select cities. One of which, is Omaha/Bellevue Nebraska, where Colonel Tibbets picked it out on the assembly line, and named it after his mother.

                        It will come home to its birth place, and be at the 2010 Offutt AFB Air Show on Aug. 28-29th.

                        After the tour, it will be put on display at the NASM.

                        FM1
                        You must be thinking of another plane. I was in the DC area for the last few days and saw the Enola Gay in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center. There was no mention of it being airworthy or flying recently.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                          ...Again, we'll see what happens when the pullout occurs. I never had doubt of the ability of our men and women in uniform, I always questioned the motivation of those who sent them there.
                          Didn't we see what happens when we leave before the job is done in Iraq? Created a need to go back a second time and start over. If the politicians had let the job be completed the first time....there would not have been a need to go back.
                          "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            This isn't about whose d!ck is bigger, its about innocents who died.
                            Just because they may or may not have attended any memorials doesn't mean we have to wait around for them to take the lead.
                            Its about doing the right thing, which to some of you, means putting aside political views for a moment and cooperating with the other side.

                            WW2 was a horrible, messy, brutal war, and I pray that we never go through something like it again, but history is bout to repeat itself.
                            Put your peckers down and remember the innocents lost, on both sides.
                            AJ, MICP, FireMedic
                            Member, IACOJ.
                            FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
                            This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                              So how is setting a deadline tying a hand behind their back?
                              Because you are telling the bad guys your plan, numbnutz. It would be like a football game where one team announces beforehand, no matter the score, we will forfeit the game before halftime. The other team will just hold back and let the victory happen. They know you are going to go home anyway. If you are going to announce any kind of withdrawal, you don't do it months before.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BLSboy View Post
                                This isn't about whose d!ck is bigger, its about innocents who died.
                                Just because they may or may not have attended any memorials doesn't mean we have to wait around for them to take the lead.
                                Its about doing the right thing, which to some of you, means putting aside political views for a moment and cooperating with the other side.

                                WW2 was a horrible, messy, brutal war, and I pray that we never go through something like it again, but history is bout to repeat itself.
                                Put your peckers down and remember the innocents lost, on both sides.
                                It's unfortunate the article is now in the member's only area. However, it's well known that the Japanese have done a poor job remembering the millions that were brutalized and killed at their hands during WWII.
                                I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                                "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                                "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                                Comment

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