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  • #31
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You realize that no Japanese government figure has EVER attended a Pearl Harbor remembrance... never.
    "Lower house speaker Yohei Kono visited Pearl Harbor in December 2008, making him the highest-ranking Japanese official to do so."

    There have been several instances over the last two decades -- including as recently as last summer -- when the Emporer Akihito has seriously considered visiting Pearl Harbor but it remains a very politically charged issue as he is, after all, Emporer Showa's (Hirohito's) son.

    As recently as last July, Akihito visited the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii. There was some discussion of visiting Pearl Harbor at that time but it was dropped from the itinerary.


    "The Japanese emperor is likely to become the first member of the imperial dynasty to visit Pearl Harbor, the site of Japan's surprise attack on the U.S. during World War II."

    Not "no Japanese government figure," just not a member of the imperial dynasty. That would be Hirohito (deceased 1989), Akihito, or Naruhito.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
    sigpic
    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
      Not "no Japanese government figure," just not a member of the imperial dynasty. That would be Hirohito (deceased 1989), Akihito, or Naruhito.
      Okay, so it took them 78 years, so I'll be ready to send one of our high ranking officials in 2088. Even though he didn't go to Pearl.
      Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-06-2010, 08:56 PM.
      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
        Okay, so it took them 78 years
        78 years since what? Pearl Harbor was 69 years ago. Akihito was 7 at the time.

        so I'll be ready to send one of our high ranking officials in 2088. Even though he didn't go to Pearl.
        But other high ranking officials have. And then, of course, there are the numerous apologies made by the Japanese government since WWII.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ssued_by_Japan
        "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
        sigpic
        The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

        Comment


        • #34
          This is how Japan would view an American Diplomat's visit:

          Mayor Tadatoshi Akiba is also hoping that President Barack Obama will visit Hiroshima, an idea that Obama has said he would like to consider but that would be highly controversial and unprecedented for a sitting U.S. president.

          "We need to communicate to every corner of the globe the intense yearning of the survivors for the abolition of nuclear weapons," Akiba told the 55,000 people at the ceremony.

          Akiba called on the Japanese government to take a leadership role in nuclear disarmament toward "turning a new page in human history."

          "I offer my prayers to those who died—we will not make you be patient much longer."
          Again, they don't see the bombing as a result of their cruel crusade... they view it as a separate slice of history. One where their citizens were attacked by nuclear weapons.

          The visit WILL be taken as a US apology or admission that an injustice was done.

          Read on...

          Hiroshima was careful to ensure that the memorial—while honoring the dead—emphasized a forward-looking approach, focusing not on whether the bombing was justified, a point which many Japanese dispute, but on averting any future nuclear attacks.
          It's simple. Japan can avoid future attacks by not killing millions as part of a madman's quest for power and a cultural arrogance.

          Roos said the memorial was a chance to show resolve toward nuclear disarmament, which Obama has emphasized as one of his administration's top objectives.
          Not, what the President's stated objective is in sending our diplomat.. by the way.

          "Life is short, but memory is long," Ban said. "For many of you, that day endures ... as vivid as the white light that seared the sky, as dark as the black rains that followed."
          Again...note the emphasis and the lessons learned?

          Washington's decision to attend the anniversary has been welcomed by Japan's government, but has generated complex feelings among some Japanese who see the 1945 bombing as unjustified and want the United States to apologize.

          "I'm not sure if I would welcome President Obama here," said Katsuki Fujii, a 20-year-old college student. "I don't think we have the same idea what peace is. He seems to think some wars are good and some are bad—I think they are all bad."
          C'mon... this is pretty simple stuff here. Even GORE could figure this one out.

          At Hiroshima's Peace Memorial Park, where Friday's ceremony was held, leftist groups in trucks blared anti-U.S. slogans to the crowds.

          "The bombing of Hiroshima was totally unnecessary," said one group. "U.S., take your nukes and go home."
          Katsuko Nishibe, a 61-year-old peace activist, said she welcomed the decision to send Roos, but added that she thought it was dangerous to think that the bombing of Hiroshima was justified.

          "We have a very different interpretation of history. But we can disagree about history and still agree that peace is what is important. That is the real lesson of Hiroshima."
          I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

          "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

          "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
            This is fits right in.....

            The Enola Gay is now rebuilt and restored to flying condition, and passed all flight requirements and tests.

            It is now on tour to select cities. One of which, is Omaha/Bellevue Nebraska, where Colonel Tibbets picked it out on the assembly line, and named it after his mother.

            It will come home to its birth place, and be at the 2010 Offutt AFB Air Show on Aug. 28-29th.

            After the tour, it will be put on display at the NASM.

            FM1
            Now this is very cool!!!
            Jason Knecht
            Firefighter/EMT
            Township Fire Dept., Inc.
            Eau Claire, WI

            IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
            http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
            EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

            Comment


            • #36
              What Japan did at the time was a terrible terrible thing and what we did by dropping the bomb was win a WORLD war that they were partly to blame for starting.

              No apologies, no regrets. Our generation can never really fully understand what it was like. A world war like that will probably never happen again on that kind of scale. It was war. It was a different time with completely different circumstances. Times have changed now....deal with it.
              Jason Knecht
              Firefighter/EMT
              Township Fire Dept., Inc.
              Eau Claire, WI

              IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
              http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
              EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                Again, they don't see the bombing as a result of their cruel crusade... they view it as a separate slice of history. One where their citizens were attacked by nuclear weapons.
                Nothing in the quote you posted conveys any such attitude. They're in favor of abolishing all nuclear weapons. Does that seem the least bit unusual to you?

                The visit WILL be taken as a US apology or admission that an injustice was done.
                You're the only one who seems to think so.

                "We have a very different interpretation of history. But we can disagree about history and still agree that peace is what is important. That is the real lesson of Hiroshima."
                I suppose you disagree with that statement as well?
                "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                sigpic
                The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                  Nothing in the quote you posted conveys any such attitude. They're in favor of abolishing all nuclear weapons. Does that seem the least bit unusual to you?
                  My opinion is not based on that one quote. I've read a bit more then that one quote. I'll refer you back to the original article I quoted in this thread.

                  Although, this quote showed the emphasis they are placing on Hiroshima (that nukes are bad), as opposed to any comment on how their country's actions in the rape and pillage of their asian neighbors, the attack on pearl harbor and other atrocities during the war in the pacific left the American's little choice...

                  This isn't about nukes.

                  You're the only one who seems to think so.
                  Obviously not. Turn on the news, read some opinion pieces... heck, read this thread.

                  Oh, by the way... love this one.

                  http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0070723kh.html

                  I suppose you disagree with that statement as well?
                  Peace is important, but not the lesson to be learned at Hiroshima. The lesson at Hiroshima is the same lesson to be learned from the atrocities of Nazi Germany, Rwanda, the killing fields... etc...etc.

                  THAT is the lesson.
                  Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-07-2010, 12:57 AM.
                  I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                  "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                  "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Well,since everytime some nation has an earthquake that their own government can't send relief to,they come running to the US with their hats in their hand crying "Makee makee fixee fixee!",why shouldn't the US have a large say in the world?
                    If they don't like parts of our culture(and I don't watch "American Idol" but I know far too much about it anyway,for example),they have that option but it doesn't give them the right to fly hijacked planes into office buildings or try to blow up planes on final approach to our airports to try an change us to what they'd like us to be.
                    The only bad things about the Bush Presidency were those that the press harped about as if they were the only things that happened during his time.I keep saying that some future historian is going to look at those news accounts and if they are the only ones he/she reads about George Walker Bush,they'll wonder how such a bastard was ever elected.
                    He carried out a UN mandate for Saddam Hussein-al Tikriti to open up for UN inspections,even if no WMDs were found,he struck back at the Taliban for carrying out the most horrific terrorist attack ever concieved and now both countries are trying to move away from cultures that denigrate women and keep people uneducated.
                    What's not to like about that?
                    Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                    Did he say something that wasn't true? What specifically did he say that made you feel bad or angry? More importantly, is that the biggest worry in your life?

                    Would you rather he be arrogant and tell the rest of the world to F-off the US can do what it damn well pleases?

                    BTW, I like kool-aid. Especially the cherry flavor.

                    Yumm...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                      The symbolism of the American Ambassador's presence is much more damning then what Obama has stated is the reason for his actual presence.
                      Damning in what way?

                      This is an incredibly ridiculous perspective and shows just how crazy the Obama haters have become.

                      You don't care what others think of America's actions, but are concerned by this event by how America will be viewed by the Japanese citizens.

                      Why should we care what they think of us? Especially given we have several more significant problems. You might have heard the US is involved in two shooting wars and one ginormous economic meltdown. I'm far more concerned about those issues than some namby pamby conservative getting their thongs in a twist ove an event that happened in the mid 40's.
                      Last edited by scfire86; 08-07-2010, 02:03 PM.
                      They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                      I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                        Why should we care what they think of us? Especially given we have several more significant problems. You might have heard the US is involved in two shooting wars and one ginormous economic meltdown. I'm far more concerned about those issues than some namby pamby conservative getting their thongs in a twist ove an event that happened in the mid 40's.
                        What an incredibly naive statement.

                        I can see why Obama struggles with foreign relations... it's a liberal misreading of the rest of the world.
                        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                          What an incredibly naive statement.

                          I can see why Obama struggles with foreign relations... it's a liberal misreading of the rest of the world.
                          How is he struggling? Upon what do you base that statement?

                          This just keeps getting better.

                          What should he be doing that would get his critics to stop bellyaching?
                          Last edited by scfire86; 08-07-2010, 02:50 PM.
                          They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                          I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                            How is he struggling? Upon what do you base that statement?

                            This just keeps getting better.

                            What should he be doing that would get his critics to stop bellyaching?
                            First thing he should have not done was the diplomatic gaffe of sending our diplomat to attend this ceremony. The START Treaty is a disaster.... The biggest mistake is yet to come, but will happen; a nuclear armed Iran. Seriously, you think he'll do ANYTHING to stop them.

                            If you think it's better now... just wait until November. It's gonna make you squeal!

                            This is a bit dated, but I'm not interested in type a long list, so we'll go with this.

                            1.Joining Hugo Chavez’s Book of the Month Club – Last April, the still-fledgling President was attending the Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago when Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez interrupted a meeting to present him with a book on U.S. imperialism in Latin America. Rather than ignoring Chavez’s overture, Obama shook the tyrant’s hand and posed for photos where the two looked like long-lost friends. That image must have been comforting to Venezuela’s political prisoners, who can be sentenced to up to 24 years just for publicly opposing the Chavez regime.

                            2.Turning a Deaf Ear to Iranian Protestors – When Iran erupted in popular revolt after widespread suspicion that last summer’s presidential elections were rigged to ensure a second-term for resident lunatic Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Obama struggled to discover a pulse. Though it was one of the first broad-based movements against the Islamic Republic’s fundamentalist government, the President’s public reaction consisted of little more than saying that he did not want to be seen as “meddling”; in the meantime, Iranians were murdered in the streets by their government. A year later, with Iran even closer to the nuclear threshold, it’s clear that Obama’s silence was a bigger win for Tehran than Washington.

                            3.Getting Shipwrecked in the Middle East Peace Process – Israel-Palestinian peace negotiations are where American presidencies go to die. After he failed to pressure Israel into suspending their settlement activities, Obama told Time Magazine "This is just really hard … This is as intractable a problem as you get. If we had anticipated some of these political problems on both sides earlier, we might not have raised expectations as high." Oh … so he thought the Middle East Peace Process was going to be easier? What exactly does it mean to have an “intellectual” in the White House?

                            4.Denigrating American Exceptionalism and Western Civilization Simultaneously – Asked at the G-20 Conference whether he believed in American exceptionalism, Obama replied “"I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism." Some might call that elusive. Others – with more clarity – might call it being a wise-*** undergraduate. The primary message was that the very notion of exceptionalism is a nationalist narcotic – something we tell ourselves for the purpose of self-validation. But there are more subtle undertones as well. Notice Obama’s other targets were Great Britain and Greece – two of the most important cultures in the development of modern western civilization. What nation, we might ask, rightfully deserves the title of “exceptional” in the President’s postmodern point of view?

                            5.Selling Central Europe Down the River – In September, Obama reneged on America’s promise to located missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic – two nations that, given their history, have an understandable sensitivity to being left out in the cold by allies. The gambit was calculated to help “reset” U.S. relations with Russia, which had been staunchly opposed to the missile defense project since its inception. But what, one might ask, is “provocative” about a system that can only be used for defense?

                            6.Buttressing a Burgeoning Dictatorship in Honduras – While Central America doesn’t often get front-page coverage in the American press, Obama’s decision to support Honduran President Manuel Zelaya after he was removed from office for trying to stage an unconstitutional coup was an exercise in Orwellian linguistics. Obama accused Zelaya’s opponents of being the insurrectionists (this despite the fact that it was Obama’s man in Tegucigalpa who was resisting the Honduran Supreme Court and the nearly unanimous Honduran Legislature) and called for the would-be dictator’s immediate return. It was a slap in the face towards a region of the world where respect for the rule of law has historically been fragile.

                            7.Splitting the Difference in Afghanistan – Obama’s initial posture towards the original front in the War on Terror was admirably decisive relative to the rest of his foreign policy – the selection of General Stanley McChrystal to be the U.S. military commander, the influx of new troops, and the emphasis on counterinsurgency strategy all showed real promise and strategic insight. But when Obama announced in December that the plan would be an 18-month surge followed by a drawdown of forces, he gave every Taliban fighter in the region the signal to lay low for a year and a half, wait coalition forces out, and resume havoc upon our departure.

                            8.Weakening America’s Position in the Global Economy – While Obama can’t seem to get his position on free trade straight (during the campaign he was against it, though his aides told foreign governments that it was all bluster; as President, he’s been more rhetorically in favor of free markets while approving several protectionist policies), his damage to America’s credibility as a stable borrower has been unambiguous. With the national debt skyrocketing, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told an audience at Peking University in China last summer that their assets in America would be safe. The audience’s reaction? Uproarious laughter.

                            9.Going Wobbly on Terrorism – Whether its civilian trials for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, attempting to close down Guantanamo, trying to minimize the significance of the Christmas Bomber or the Fort Hood shooting, or being seemingly unaware that there’s such at thing as terrorism in Yemen, Obama has been asleep at the switch on the most immediately pressing national security issue of his presidency. It turns out that it’s easier to choose hope over fear when you don’t bother with the facts.

                            10.Making a Global Apology Tour – Obama has spent the better part of his 14 months in office traveling the globe in a hairshirt, flogging himself in the streets on behalf of his country. Obama has apologized for a history of American arrogance (to the Europeans, no less!), for Guantanamo’s use as a recruitment tool, for American insensitivity to the Muslim World, for conducting the War on Terror in an abrasive fashion, and even for being too aggressive at the CIA. The President seems to have confused effective foreign policy with step nine in an AA program.

                            http://www.cfif.org/v/index.php/comm...olicy-blunders
                            Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-07-2010, 07:39 PM.
                            I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                            "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                            "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              First thing he should have not done was the diplomatic gaffe of sending our diplomat to attend this ceremony. The START Treaty is a disaster.... The biggest mistake is yet to come, but will happen; a nuclear armed Iran. Seriously, you think he'll do ANYTHING to stop them.
                              More rantings from planet wingnuttia.

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              If you think it's better now... just wait until November. It's gonna make you squeal!
                              I hope you're not the one who is disappointed. As low as Obama's favorables are currently polled, the GOP's are even worse.

                              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                              This is a bit dated, but I'm not interested in type a long list, so we'll go with this.
                              More lunatic rantings from the sore loser crowd.
                              They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                                First thing he should have not done was the diplomatic gaffe of sending our diplomat to attend this ceremony. The START Treaty is a disaster.... The biggest mistake is yet to come, but will happen; a nuclear armed Iran. Seriously, you think he'll do ANYTHING to stop them.
                                More rantings from planet wingnuttia.

                                Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                                If you think it's better now... just wait until November. It's gonna make you squeal!
                                I hope you're not the one who is disappointed. As low as Obama's favorables are currently polled, the GOP's are even worse.

                                Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                                This is a bit dated, but I'm not interested in type a long list, so we'll go with this.
                                More lunatic rantings from the sore loser crowd.

                                You didn't answer the most important question. What should he be doing so the sore loser crowd stops bellyaching?
                                They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                                I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                                Comment

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