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  • Those firefighters were way to close to that line. We need to remember the radious for the electrical current can travel. The house was gone Risk a little to save a little. That fire could have turned to a LOD very quickly because of the john Wayne firefighters. I am very glad to see that no one was hurt and with everything said on the bad parts, very nice knock down and strong work guys.

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    • I wish I could have seen more of the LDH "Hand Jacking" portion of the video...

      It appeared that no one had grabbed the couplings or did it in an orginized fashion thus, it would have made it a quicker strech back to the source.


      Key points on LDH stretch
      #1 IT IS EASIER IF YOU LAY IN!!! (learn how to not block the road entirely)
      #2 keep the couplings off the ground, it'll reduce the friction
      #3 space yourself out
      #4 slow is smooth, smooth is fast... you've got to train on doing it
      Originally Posted by madden01
      "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

      Comment


      • There's no way you can put this volume of fire out with an 1 3/4" handline! I mean seriously no way! no how ! I mean doesn't this say it all.
        Originally posted by ffnj40 View Post
        This is going to be long, FireMedic, thank you for pointing out to me that you don't get what I am saying. Look at this video. This is not a small fire, you can see fire from sill to ridgepole & it has vented through windows, the eaves and partly through the roof. This is not a R&C fire or a bunch of R&C fires. This is a structure fire. A R&C fire suggests only the content in a room is on fire. Once the structural elements of a blding ignite, like the studs, joists, & sheathing it is no longer a R&C fire, but a structure fire. Collaspe become an over riding safty concern here. This is a fact in homes like this right out of Dunn's book. "Fire burning through or against a side wall is more likely to collapse a blding than fire burning through several fls or the roof".(remember at a house fire at least 2 of the 4 side walls are bearing), this video shows fire is probably attacking the exterior side wall from the inside.
        As for extingishment. There must be a source of water of sufficient VOLUME to suppress the number of BTU's. Agreed? When speaking of a R&C fire, most residental rooms have a fireload of 5lbs per/sqft. Each pound of ORDINARY conbustibles gives off 7,000-10,000 BTU's. Add plastics & synthetic & it can double. Each gallon of water absorbs about 9,275 BTU's when heated from 70 degrees to turning to steam. This is right out of Norman
        Stay with me!
        Theroy is 1 gallon will provide sufficient cooling to put out 5lbs of fuel at an average R&C fire. So in that case you are right 1-2 R&C fires, 1 3/4in good call! Tests performed by the NFPA & Factor Mutual have said that flows of 10gpm for each 100sqft of fire is sufficient to control light fireloads. So again you are right in saying a 1 3/4in could handle multipe R&C fires. Problem is this is not a R&C fire or a bunch of R&C fires like I said at the start.
        Now I think this is a fully involved structure all of the content in the home is on fire and a good majority of the structural elements that make up the home seem to be burning. So in addition to the content burning you have to factor in the building elements now, which changes the fireload from light to heavy. 1000sqft x 10gpm as stated by the fire gods(NFPA) equals 10,000 gpm. This is just the structural elements not including the content. NFPA numbers don't lie. This building is lost, sorry, & if you use a 1 3/4in on this fire before protecting your exposures you may lose another house.
        As for flowing 325gpm out of a 1 3/4 in. I don't believe it. Tell me where I can find this information cause it's not possible in my firefighting book of hydralics.
        Well......errrr....or maybe just watch this.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDXalzMrEV4
        Keep your textbooks off my fireground!
        This is video of 2 house fires in Gary IN. of particular relevance to this discussion is the 1st one ,it lasts 5 min. I'm guessing the pipeman didn't have too many theories and NFPA formulas running thru his head as he laid out and masked up.More likely he's thinking " I can make this" and "This is going to be fun".I'd say he is very experienced with fires in this type of structure and didn't give it a second thought.Looks like he didn't flow much more than 300-500 gallons before achieving knockdown.Still sticking with that 2 1/2?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by EatTheRoof View Post
          There's no way you can put this volume of fire out with an 1 3/4" handline! I mean seriously no way!
          Wrong. I mean seriously.........wrong.
          RK
          cell #901-494-9437

          Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

          "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


          Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

          Comment


          • Well I guess I should have posted it this way.ATTENTION SARCASM ALERT-The following text will include the use of sarcasm any relation to non-sarcastic posts is unintended and in no way reflects the views of the author.Now that we have that out of the way ,I'll try again.

            There's no way you can put this volume of fire out with an 1 3/4" handline! I mean seriously no way! no how ! I mean doesn't this say it all.

            Memphis I believe if you read the whole post and view the video you will agree that we see things in exactly the same light.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by EatTheRoof View Post
              Well I guess I should have posted it this way.ATTENTION SARCASM ALERT-The following text will include the use of sarcasm any relation to non-sarcastic posts is unintended and in no way reflects the views of the author.Now that we have that out of the way ,I'll try again.

              There's no way you can put this volume of fire out with an 1 3/4" handline! I mean seriously no way! no how ! I mean doesn't this say it all.

              Memphis I believe if you read the whole post and view the video you will agree that we see things in exactly the same light.
              My bad. I am normally pretty good at picking up on the sarcasm, but I completely missed it here. Perhaps it was the time of the evening.

              I see it now. Welcome to the boards.
              RK
              cell #901-494-9437

              Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

              "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


              Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

              Comment


              • Thanks for the welcome Memphis.I think we will be agreeing on alot of things by the looks of it.New to the boards but not the Fire Service.I've been a frontline FF for over 20 years on a big city Fire Dept. and have always chosen to be in the busiest and toughest areas of the city.I lean toward the Truck side of things but have crawled into my share of Burning s***holes.To get back to the subject at hand and the point I want to make is....it is one thing to read about something and a quite another to put it into practice or see it put into practice.Formulas are nice for the laboratory,when you spec out a piece of equipment or fire suppression system but in the field I'll take the judgement of an experienced front line firefighter any day.Yes ,you could fight this fire with a big line(2 1/2" or larger) and that's just fine, but don't tell me this is "BIG" fire and a 1 3/4 " handline is contraindicated.
                Last edited by EatTheRoof; 10-25-2009, 07:24 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mgfdlt7 View Post
                  The house is a total loss. This is a risk versus reward type fire. Protect the exposure, fight the fire away from the power line, risk nobody for a house that is going to see the wrecking ball anyway.
                  It would not have been a total loss if they would have put the fire out.

                  Comment

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