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  • #16
    deleted post. If you get close enough and have a light, you can make things out. Yes there's smoke and there is Venting. Nothing I said was Sound Advice. If you want to be critical then take it else where.
    Last edited by rescue84; 06-25-2008, 10:34 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by rescue84 View Post
      that's pretty much the only use I have for them. I don't even have them on my new helmet.

      I edited it out does that make you feel better. I could think of a lot dumber things written on here.
      The point is, somethings melting, pay attention.
      The fires that I respond to have smoke that goes with them.

      How do you possibly see if your bourkes are starting to curl? Same goes for your advice about other things in the room melting. The only time I have ever noticed something that melted was after the fire has been extinguished during a secondary search or overhaul.

      It sometimes amazes me for what passes for sound advice.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by FIRECAPT62 View Post
        I would have to say that "Your Brain" would be the best thing to use in this case.

        Knowledge, Skill and Experience are the BEST things on hand.

        There are many things on the Fire Ground that can lead you to the conclusion that it is getting to hot. Learn what a "Flashover" is and ALL the S/S of an impending flashover. Learn about "Back Drafts' and all the S/S of an impending back draft. Learn how to read the smoke in and outside a building, learn about rollover and what it indicates.

        TIC's are GREAT tools to use along with all the Knowledge, Skills and Experience gained over the years.

        I have been in fires where my ears and such were hot but there was good ventilation and such...So I was not concerned with the heat. But I have been in fires where my ears were not hot yet but there was heavy black smoke to the floor, ventilation was not in place yet and there was heavy fire somewhere in the building that I could not find yet. There was wisps of fire in the smoke overhead...In this case I was very concerned with the heat.

        There is not a (one indicator answer) out there.

        Take care, fight hard and be safe.

        There is alot of thruth here. You must under stand what is going on and not get to the point of melting things. But any rapid increase in heat felt by you should alarm you to get out. Rapid build up is not good.

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        • #19
          As stated earlier, when the air you are breathing from your SCBA is hot then it is definately hot in the structure, so re-evaluate your tactics (get out). Also, the gear today is so good that by the time you actually feel hot, and I mean hot, you may already be on your way to being burned. The gear absorbs heat, this can lead to a "compression burn" if your gear is pushed against you.

          One of my friends is recovering from burns to his ears, hands and shin. This is more than likely because gear these days lets you commit so far in that you don't realize you are hot until you feel that wasp sting sensation, and it was more than likely bad compression burns on his shin and knuckles since it was the leg he was crouched on in a stairwell and the knuckles of the hand he was holding the nozzle with.

          In regards to helmets melting, his faceshield on his cairns 1010 was only brown and slightly bubbled on the top edge (proving better construction in newer gear). All the refectors were burnt off, the rubber trim on it was melting and his leather shield now looks like a canoe. But the faceshield wasn't melted bad if really any at all. This modern gear does protect you but you have to know when you are hot, and if you are hot then you should say something to your partner and as I said before, re-evaluate your tactics.

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          • #20
            That is so true. As gear gets better tactics need to adjust because your perception is getting more and more limited.
            To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Slaytallica45 View Post
              Let me revise my post, I agree that it might not always give you an indication of impending flashover, what I meant was the TIC will give you an indication of ceiling temps when you enter the room, i.e. if you enter the fire room and you get temp readings in the 900-1000 degree range at the ceiling, which is the general temp range for flashover, you would know that you need to apply water and fast.
              Not sure if this is what you meant but since I know quite a few people who didn't realize this (nor did I until I took a few classes with the guys from FDNY Rescue 3) I figured I'd check. Maybe you just didn't word it quite right but a TIC doesn't read air temperature, it reads the temperature of the object it's pointed at. So if you pointed it at the ceiling it would read the actual ceiling material's temperature, and certainly as you pointed out, if it was 1000 degrees, the air would be much higher and flashing soon, if it didn't already. And obviously the thing to be careful about is if you point it at something that say's it's only 300 degrees, that's not the air temperature, it's the object's, so the air temp is probably hotter than that, especially things that may take a while to warm up can put you in a bad spot if you aren't aware of this.

              Some of the new TICs are really good at showing convection currents at ceiling level and this is a great way to see way ahead of time if there is really hot air travelling over your head and getting behind you.

              Just passing on that info if anyone wasn't aware of it like I wasn't. Not trying to insult anyone.

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