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Know your locks

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  • #16
    Originally posted by FFFRED View Post
    Ok first.

    I disagree with any maul/baseball swing method for a few reasons.

    1. It won't work as well as one thinks.
    2. You loose control of the door and quite posibly destroy any integrity it had.
    3. It borders on the amature methods employed by the cops.

    Those jambs won't split (steel doesn't split normally) easily on the back side and they don't give much either.

    Once you have an idea that certain locks are rim locks....taking off the plate and driving the cylinder through (thus the lock off the door) would be a possible method.

    Chain in place would be easy to remove with a swing of an axe and indicate presence of a person inside.

    The Police lock is shown not being in place. (the photo following mine is of a different lock) That is the only one where I've learned giving a shot to the door with a maul or axe is practicable and sometimes the only method to dislodge the bar. Although I'm sure using a thin blind might work to kick it out of the hole in the floor.

    (PS-the family who made them is no longer in the business and still owns the rights to its production so unless they start back into the locksmithing biz or sell the rights to someone else...you won't see any new ones out there.)

    Remember...all, some or none of those locks may be egaged when you find them...if the occupant evacuated in haste the slam lock might be the only one working (if it has oneto begin with). I would start at the top and work my way down if it were me.

    FTM-PTB

    Originally posted by MattyJ View Post
    As stated earlier....this is a very common door in this city. The rim locks should really not give too much trouble. Work from the upper locks down, and take them one or two at a time.

    The biggest problem will be the Police Lock. If it is engaged, the first step I would take is to try to knock the bar out of the floor slot. Pull the knob of the door towards you (this pulls the bar in the floor closer to being out)...now give the bottom of the door a good shot in an attempt to dislodge the bar from the floor. If that didn't work, I would attempt to remove the cylinder and minipulate the lock (through the lock).....if it still didn't work, I would then attempt to drive the lock body off the door by inserting the pike of the Halligan (or officers tool) into the hole and driving it off. If all this fails, it's time to start thinking about knocking out a panel, taking the hinges, or beating the **** out of the door.
    I didnt realize it was a steel jamb pictured. I definately wouldnt try the baseball swing there.

    Thanks for the info!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by len1582 View Post
      . . .Fox Police Lock from occupants side
      .
      .

      Len,

      This photo is actually of the "Fox-Lock" which differs from the traditional "Police-Lock"

      In the first picture of this thread, you can see just one half of the "Police-Lock". You can see the part where the metal rod attaches to the door. What isn't pictured is the actual metal rod that extends downward from about the middle of the door at an almost 45 degree angle and sets in place in a "socket" on the floor itself.

      This lock, when engaged, can be difficult to force, and it is recommended that this type of lock be disengaged by striking the door to try to knock the rod out of its position in the floor. Not an easy task.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jakesdad View Post
        Len,

        This photo is actually of the "Fox-Lock" which differs from the traditional "Police-Lock"...
        OK... I checked Google Images and that is what came up.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by len1582; 06-10-2008, 03:05 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by len1582 View Post
          OK... I checked Google Images and that is what came up.

          No problem. I tried to find a photo of the actual "Police-Lock" but didn't have any luck. Just wanted to clear it up for anyone that might of been confused.

          Do you guys run into those where you work?

          Comment


          • #20
            Don't see them as often as we used to. Mostly on older commercial buildings now.

            I understand. Sometimes it like getting mapquest directions..

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by len1582 View Post
              Don't see them as often as we used to. Mostly on older commercial buildings now.

              I understand. Sometimes it like getting mapquest directions..


              Yeah that picture is of the "Fox-Lock"

              The "Multi-Lock" is similar, but it has two additional bars (one going up into the top of the jamb, and one going down into the floor).

              The "Police-Lock" is the one with the rod that extends away from the door and into the floor a few feet from the door itself.

              I wil try to find a picture of one engaged if I can.

              Comment


              • #22
                another hint that you may have a police lock is the location and alignment of the cylinder. The cylinder is usually about mid abdomen height and is slightly offset towards the hinge side ( I'm 6'3" so adjust accordingly). This is just what the guys in my area have found. Others may have other info. As far as forcing it goes I feel the best way is to pull the cylinder with the point of the halligan and then place the point of the halligan thought the hole and with a good hit from a maul blow the bar right off the door. Have done it several times and always has worked.

                PS a way to remember the difference between the two think of a baton that a police officer carries and you will never mix them up again

                Comment


                • #23
                  Easy stuff, Uli-Knot charge, 4-5" 50GR/Ft Detonation Cord with a 1"x5" Buffer will drop that door no problem.....however it is a violent explosion....but not as bad...or as fun as using the a SMAW rocket....

                  These days, that's how I would take that door.
                  IACOJ Member

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by VinnieB View Post
                    Easy stuff, Uli-Knot charge, 4-5" 50GR/Ft Detonation Cord with a 1"x5" Buffer will drop that door no problem.....however it is a violent explosion....but not as bad...or as fun as using the a SMAW rocket....

                    These days, that's how I would take that door.
                    .
                    .
                    Does that qualify you for an extra 12% ..

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      No....But I am going to call my union rep.....
                      IACOJ Member

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                      • #26
                        We just had to go there didn't we?
                        One of the early posts indicated that the quanity of locks indicated that it would be time to attack the hinges, I have to disagree. Attacking the hinges is a last resort, it is alot harder than it sounds and it is alot harder than forcing the lock side. The integrity of the door is lost completley and getting all of the monkeys behind you to pass a heavy steel door back out to the hallway after it falls is an accomplishment in itself. The police bars can as Matty said be dislodged by pulling and striking the door to bounce it out of the floor hole (usually filled up with dirt so the bar does not sit right anyway) allowing the door to be forced conventionally. And I can only speak for myself but I have never seen anyone pull out a venitian blind slat at a job, it may work great but I just don't think it is realistic.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to add a few things because it recently helped me answer some questions that some friends of mine threw my way. They had recently installed the Fox-police-lock as an additional deterrent for their apartment unit. It might sound like safety overkill in some apartments, but they live in a rather rough neighborhood, so I could understand the reason why they wanted to get this lock installed. From my own personal experience with the fox police lock, I can say that it is pretty secure and not necessarily the easiest lock to bypass when you are pressed for time (especially when it is coupled with the Mul-T Lock cylinder). They told me that they found this out the hard way because they accidentally locked themselves out of their apartment and they had to exhaust every trick in the book to get back in. In order to avoid that ever happening again, they started paying attention to blog posts like this (http://united-locksmith.net/blog/loc...rtment-lockout). Although it was well-written, I don't even think that is enough to help people bypass a fox police lock coupled with a Mul-T-Lock cylinder and it will definitely be much harder to do in our line of work where we are pressed for time.

                          In a pinch (and keeping the integrity of the door in mind), I strongly suggest that the best way to target the lock and have it removed is to target the cylinder as zman132 suggests. It's a lot easier said than done because many of these modern cylinders are meant to withstand the pressure that is exerted on them. However, different methods will work for different models of the lock. Some are installed as a center piece in the door and these are much harder to work with due to their placement. For those that are installed in the same manner as a regular deadbolt, it is much easier to break the lock and gain entry. These methods will damage the door much less than if you decide to blow the locks.

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