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  • Know your locks



    FTM-PTB

  • #2
    Is that know your locks or know your ROCKS? Look at the size of that diamond.

    Seriously though I bet many firefighters don't even know what type of locks those are or how to defeat them other than beat down the door.

    Comment


    • #3
      What are the four bolts on the top rim lock? Is it for a reinforcement plate on the front of the door?
      ullrichk
      a.k.a.
      perfesser

      a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ullrichk View Post
        What are the four bolts on the top rim lock? Is it for a reinforcement plate on the front of the door?

        I do believe so.

        FTM-PTB

        Comment


        • #5
          Fred,

          I get the jist of the post, but in situations like that, your only option is brute force. There is no way to be on the other side of that door and "skillfully" work on each of those locks to gain entry.
          RK
          cell #901-494-9437

          Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

          "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


          Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe start thinking about taking the hinge side..

            Comment


            • #7
              As long as the police lock isnt in place thats a standard NYC door. I would doubt anyone would have trouble with it, unless of course the door started to fall apart then its a mess cause you lose so much energy from the door moving.

              Comment


              • #8
                I know looks can be decieving but from what I can see they used small sheet metal screws on a hollow jamb. I know you cant see this from the other side but a couple of good hits with a sledge or axe and you should be well on your way in
                Buck
                Assistant Chief/EMT-B

                Comment


                • #9
                  it looks like splitting and blowing out the back of the jamb would eliminate most of the problems there. baseball swing..

                  Originally posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
                  As long as the police lock isnt in place thats a standard NYC door. I would doubt anyone would have trouble with it, unless of course the door started to fall apart then its a mess cause you lose so much energy from the door moving.
                  How does the police lock work?

                  n/m

                  found this

                  "Q. Among the many old locks, deadbolts and metal plates encrusted on the front door of my apartment is a metal slot for an old ''police lock.'' It occurs to me that I haven't actually seen one in use for years. Have they become a thing of the past?

                  A. ''I still keep them in stock,'' said John Littlejohn, manager of Abbey Locksmiths at East 81st Street and Second Avenue for 30 years. ''But sales have been fading for the past 20 years.''

                  Mr. Littlejohn said that police locks were designed to be used with wooden doors, but that with the steel or steel-framed doors now in common use, ''you don't need that kind of lock.'' The locks use a heavy rolled-steel bar; one end is set in a floor socket while the other is locked into a metal box attached to the door. A door thus equipped could withstand all but the most formidable assaults, short of outright demolition.

                  The first brace-type police locks were manufactured by the Fox Police Lock Company of New York about 1907, to the designs of Emiel R. Fox, a former night watchman. Gene Skratt, owner of Fox, has said the locks took their name from an old police procedure used to secure damaged doors after a burglary, when a 2-by-4 was set across the gap between the door and a piece of wood nailed into the floor. The locks were sold almost exclusively in and around New York City. Other brands, like Magic Eye and Parker, appeared later, Mr. Littlejohn said."
                  Last edited by LeatherHed4Life; 06-08-2008, 05:11 PM.

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                  • #10
                    . . .Fox Police Lock from occupants side
                    .
                    .
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      any indicators of this from the outside? for size up ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Usually you can eyeball a lock thats off center from the others more toward the center of the door and above the mortise lock of the door knob. The only trick that really works was taught to us by an old R-3 guy, but its not that commonly accepted, the blade of a venetian blind slipped under the door to knock the bar out. Either way you still need to see if its even in place by taking the door or if your eyes are good enough and the door has enough space by looking under the door and the saddle to see if its in place.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ok first.

                          I disagree with any maul/baseball swing method for a few reasons.

                          1. It won't work as well as one thinks.
                          2. You loose control of the door and quite posibly destroy any integrity it had.
                          3. It borders on the amature methods employed by the cops.

                          Those jambs won't split (steel doesn't split normally) easily on the back side and they don't give much either.

                          Once you have an idea that certain locks are rim locks....taking off the plate and driving the cylinder through (thus the lock off the door) would be a possible method.

                          Chain in place would be easy to remove with a swing of an axe and indicate presence of a person inside.

                          The Police lock is shown not being in place. (the photo following mine is of a different lock) That is the only one where I've learned giving a shot to the door with a maul or axe is practicable and sometimes the only method to dislodge the bar. Although I'm sure using a thin blind might work to kick it out of the hole in the floor.

                          (PS-the family who made them is no longer in the business and still owns the rights to its production so unless they start back into the locksmithing biz or sell the rights to someone else...you won't see any new ones out there.)

                          Remember...all, some or none of those locks may be egaged when you find them...if the occupant evacuated in haste the slam lock might be the only one working (if it has oneto begin with). I would start at the top and work my way down if it were me.

                          FTM-PTB

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As stated earlier....this is a very common door in this city. The rim locks should really not give too much trouble. Work from the upper locks down, and take them one or two at a time.

                            The biggest problem will be the Police Lock. If it is engaged, the first step I would take is to try to knock the bar out of the floor slot. Pull the knob of the door towards you (this pulls the bar in the floor closer to being out)...now give the bottom of the door a good shot in an attempt to dislodge the bar from the floor. If that didn't work, I would attempt to remove the cylinder and minipulate the lock (through the lock).....if it still didn't work, I would then attempt to drive the lock body off the door by inserting the pike of the Halligan (or officers tool) into the hole and driving it off. If all this fails, it's time to start thinking about knocking out a panel, taking the hinges, or beating the **** out of the door.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FFFRED View Post
                              Ok first.

                              I disagree with any maul/baseball swing method for a few reasons.

                              FTM-PTB
                              Absolutely. Steel doors and jambs with stronger locks among other security measures have turned forcible entry from brute force with a maul or a foot into a wooden door into a skill that needs to be learned and practiced.
                              Taking a door can make you look like a champ or a chump.

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