Eng Chauffer question. FDNY

[FDNYbop]

FDNY here. I have a question about the Pro Pressure Governor.

When using booster tank water for trash or car fires, you dont need the Governor to necessarily be ENGAGED. You can leave it in idle and have plenty of pressure. i'm also in "pressure" mode.

My question is this. The reading on the engine pressure gauge in the above situation reads about 120 psi, is this the pressure at the nozzle? Or is it lower? 120 seems like a lot of pressure for 1 line. I think someone said that in idle, the pressure is 60 psi. im confused about the IDLE situation.
Any help is apprciated.
Any other hints with the Governor is also appreciated.
Thanks.

[johnfd86]

I have no experience with your govoner....but would be almost certain that your pressure reading is straight off the discharge side of your pump and not at the nozzle. 120 psi does not sound to high as it would have nothing to do with the number of lines charged, only the amount of pressure created by your pump. If you are creating 120 psi at idle off of your booster tank you have a damn good pump. 60 psi seems more realistic.

From what I remember about Am LaFr pressure matic water govoners is that they never have to be engaged in order to perform a pump operation. They are designed to protect the pump and the nozzleman, until it is engaged you have total control of the operation with your throttle.

As far as what psi you should pump to this line depends upon many factors such as hose size, length, manufacturer and the same factors with your nozzle.

P.S. your sop/sog may not require that you secure a water source for car or trash fires but it would be safe to keep that option available....prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[RFDACM02]

Also note that 120 may be the pressure throughout the system with the nozzle closed. I also am not familiar with the Pressure Govener ssyetm you have but I know that with no water flowing the pressure equalizes throughout the system.

[jonnyirons2]

First off, if you're new in the FDNY they would have taught you this in probie school, or better yet, ask your senior man, thats what he is there for. 120lbs at the outlet is nothing especially when we calculate friction loss of 1.75 inch hose as 15-20lbs per length. you have 4 lengths and you are already down to 60-80lbs of pressure and at the higher end of that (80) you wont have enough pressure to flow the optimum amount of water which is dictated in our books as having 50lbs at the nozzle for a 15/16" tip. If you have questions go get Engine Company Ops and read it read it read it read it and read it!

[FDNYbop]

reply

Johnny, if you're kind enough or anyone else, perhaps you can offer your expertise.
Maybe i wasn't clear in my initial post.

I'm trying to understand IDLE and what the psi is at idle. To me, it seems like it is stable at around 120-130psi whether water is flowing or not. The engine gauge on upper right corner of pump panel proves this.
Is this really the IDLE pressure?
If it is, then a trash fire requiring 4 lengths of 1 3/4 hose...i could leave the pumps in idle---50 psi (at nozzle)+ 80 psi (4 lengths) = 130 psi. In other words i dont have to engage the governor at all because at idle it is giving me the correct pressure...in this case about 130 psi.
Am i interpreting this correctly?
Or as one poster suggested...at idle the psi is more realistic at 60 psi.
Thanks for helping.
Btw, the books dont get this specific.

[MemphisE34a]

Matty, Fred, Nate.......any kind words for this lad? Seems like he is either bogus or not paying ANY attention.

Could this guy possibly be for real???

[NYSmokey]

Making an assumption that this is a Waterous pump we are talking about since I believe that's all your department buys. Also, is this a high rise pumper you are using? I'm not sure if that makes any difference but the more info you could give us about the equipment, the easier it will be to do the research.

Oh and Johnnyirons is right

[erics99]

Johnny, if you're kind enough or anyone else, perhaps you can offer your expertise.
Maybe i wasn't clear in my initial post.

I'm trying to understand IDLE and what the psi is at idle. To me, it seems like it is stable at around 120-130psi whether water is flowing or not. The engine gauge on upper right corner of pump panel proves this.
Is this really the IDLE pressure?
If it is, then a trash fire requiring 4 lengths of 1 3/4 hose...i could leave the pumps in idle---50 psi (at nozzle)+ 80 psi (4 lengths) = 130 psi. In other words i dont have to engage the governor at all because at idle it is giving me the correct pressure...in this case about 130 psi.
Am i interpreting this correctly?
Or as one poster suggested...at idle the psi is more realistic at 60 psi.
Thanks for helping.
Btw, the books dont get this specific.

When the line is charged, what does the gauge read for that particular discharge? It should read the same as the master pressure gauge if only one line is off and the discharge is fully open while flowing water. I am not sure what the Idle pressure is when having it in pressure mode. All our engines remain in "capacity" or "volume"....aka parallel mode. The idle pressure in that mode is about 60 PSI I believe.

[slackjawedyokel]

Dang buddy --- you are asking if the pdp is the same as on the tip? No offense but you seem to be clueless on the whole concept, if you are really serious get a good pump operator to set you down and start at square one, right down to the concept of swinging a 5 gallon bucket with a hole in the bottom round and round and work up from there.

[MattyJ]

Matty, Fred, Nate.......any kind words for this lad? Seems like he is either bogus or not paying ANY attention.

Could this guy possibly be for real???

I posted on the other "question" about the Multiversal.

[johnny46]

Maybe this is one of those FDNY Online guys.

[GFDLT1]

Matty, Nate, Fred, Johnny- Do your probies learn how to pump during probie school or just the basics. Say enough to floor test a pump?

[VinnieB]

Matty, Nate, Fred, Johnny- Do your probies learn how to pump during probie school or just the basics. Say enough to floor test a pump?

Probies are taught the very basics. Put in pumps, water supply and get water flowing. They are also taught pressures.

[jonnyirons2]

Here's a tip, when taking the sash of a window frame with a halligan in Zero visibility, be sure to NOT smash your fingers on the window gate, it really f'in hurts the next day! And if youre at a trash fire, pressure is not that much of an issue. It will almost not likely be an IDLH or a situation that will be life threatening. Pressure and water flows are important when operating in a fire in an enclosed place, not at a car fire (no lives endangered) or dumpster fire. I think you have the same problem I did when I first got to the firehouse, you were too anxious and wanted to do everything! That really screwed me, especially since it wasnt the busiest Engine with 3300 runs a year. Sit back and ask questions. Ask your senior man, if he doesnt know, ask an officer, if he doesnt know, have him ask someone, I highly doubt that they wont though. This job is changing drastically, the modernization of automobiles is probably partly to blame for it. Years ago guys would drag their ghetto cruisers in to the firehouse and fix them in between runs. Now the only guy that fix's his car is the one who drives one from the early 90's cause you do not need a computer to fix it! The days of looking at something to figure out how it works is over, and unfortunately most of our equipment is still very mechanical in nature. With the exception of the governor and the engine management controls of our rigs, the rest is all mechanical; meaning, you pull lever a get reaction a, add lever b to a and have a result that creates half the output due to double the volume. These basics are not taught to new firemen in NYC because of the complexity it could create to some new minds that are being presented with a million different things all at once, should it be? Darn right it should, but with that last test, ill be surprised if we will get guys that can show up to work on time :-(

[backsteprescue123]

So in other words Matty...you have no logical answer to my question. And no knowledge on the subject and engine operations in general. Typical know it all truckie!
Know this, i will be your boss someday and look forward to hammering your d**k flat.

Um, pardon me, but not only are you new to the FDNY, but you are also new here. Matty is a well known and well respected poster on these forums. His knowledge has helped many people. Don't just come in here and think that because no one knows who you really are, you can talk all the crap you want to people. Especially such well respected and crusty Jakes such as Matty.


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