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    Hi, my department is really getting involved in accountability and scene size up. Myself and a few other members were thinking of making a so called cheat sheet to assist us with scene size up. We have a lot of ideas of things we can put on there, but I was wondering if anyone out there has a few ideas of things we can put on there. If anyone has any ideas please email me at [email protected]. Thanks for your help

  • #2
    Also post them to this thread I am sure others would find the information useful as well..........

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    • #3
      we are moving into a new command style called ITAC (Incident Managment, Tactical objectives, Accountability, and Communications). it seems to be pretty neat. It really shortened are size ups.

      We have 6 tactical positions to choose from. TRIPOD
      T- transitional, 2 or more personnel and fire can be hit from a defensive position until more show up to make 2 in 2 out.
      R- Rescue, 3 or more known victim gives you the exemption for 2 in 2 out
      I- investigating
      P- preparing, used when getting ready for interior attack and do not have 2 in 2 out
      O- Offensive, 4 on the scene
      D- Defensive, self explanitory

      We also don't don the whole construction type it's assumed you know what kind of building your going to on dispatch. so it's usually said stories and size small medium or large. what the officer see's (fire, smoke, nothing showing) where it's coming from floor 1 alpha side. then what type of command. which we use I EAT. Initiate (combative commander), Establish (which you must then name and place the command post), Assume, Terminate.

      A size up might sound like this for a residential fire.

      E10 arriving medium 2 story flame showing floor 2 alpha side we will be transitional and initiating.

      Long story short our cheat sheets show TRIPOD and a short definition on it and IEAT with a short definition.
      FOOLS
      RFB-KTF-DTRT

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      • #4
        Down and dirty size up.. in more ways than one!

        Building Construction
        Location of the fire
        Occupancy
        Water supply
        Manpower
        Exposures
        ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
        Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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        • #5
          Unit Idenftifier
          Building Size (Large, Medium, Small)
          construction description (wood-frame, ordinary const., etc)
          occupancy description (residential, commercial, etc
          Conditions (Nothing Showing, Smoke Showing, or Fire Showing)
          Mode (Investigating, Fast Attack, Defensive)
          Establishment of Command.

          E1 is on scene of a large, wood-frame, residential structure. Smoke showing from the "A" Side we'll be making a fast attack. This is 3rd Street Command

          Comment


          • #6
            Construction
            Occupancy
            Apparatus + manpower
            Life hazards

            Water supply
            Auxillary appliances
            Street conditions

            Weather
            Exposures
            Area
            Location and extent of fire
            Time of day
            Height
            Co 11
            Virginia Beach FD

            Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

            'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by fireslayer1237 View Post
              We have 6 tactical positions to choose from. TRIPOD
              T- transitional, 2 or more personnel and fire can be hit from a defensive position until more show up to make 2 in 2 out.
              R- Rescue, 3 or more known victim gives you the exemption for 2 in 2 out
              I- investigating
              P- preparing, used when getting ready for interior attack and do not have 2 in 2 out
              O- Offensive, 4 on the scene
              D- Defensive, self explanitory

              ....

              we use I EAT. Initiate (combative commander), Establish (which you must then name and place the command post), Assume, Terminate.

              A size up might sound like this for a residential fire.

              E10 arriving medium 2 story flame showing floor 2 alpha side we will be transitional and initiating.

              Long story short our cheat sheets show TRIPOD and a short definition on it and IEAT with a short definition.
              Wow, that is slick...your TRIPOD acronym pretty much encapsulates every basic mode of operation you'd want (I was taught 4: interior offense, defense, blitz -> offense, or blitz -> defense). The TRIPOD/I EAT thing is a little more specific, and makes for a lot less radio clutter...assuming of course that everyone knows what "transitional" is (I think the rest are pretty self-explanatory).
              My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

              IACOJ--West Coast PITA

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by fireslayer1237 View Post
                R- Rescue, 3 or more known victim gives you the exemption for 2 in 2 out.
                What??

                3 or more known victims? Maybe thats your departments view on things, but even by the two in/two out policy, you do not have to have any KNOWN victims.
                RK
                cell #901-494-9437

                Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

                "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


                Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
                  Down and dirty size up.. in more ways than one!

                  Building Construction
                  Location of the fire
                  Occupancy
                  Water supply
                  Manpower
                  Exposures
                  Personally, I like Gonzo's method and will institute it immediately.

                  Easy to remember and that is everything with this type of system.

                  FyredUp
                  Last edited by FyredUp; 05-02-2007, 12:00 PM. Reason: spelling
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MemphisE34a View Post
                    What??

                    3 or more known victims? Maybe thats your departments view on things, but even by the two in/two out policy, you do not have to have any KNOWN victims.
                    I caught this one too. So if there is only one victim they don't go? Or even 2? They wait until they can muster 2 in 2 out? WOW!!

                    FyredUp
                    Crazy, but that's how it goes
                    Millions of people living as foes
                    Maybe it's not too late
                    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fyred/Memphis -- I had to read it three times.

                      Read the line above it, he left out two words on the one you guys are questioning.

                      I'm pretty darn certain he meant to type:

                      R- Rescue, 3 or more personnel and known victim

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dalmatian190 View Post
                        Fyred/Memphis -- I had to read it three times.

                        Read the line above it, he left out two words on the one you guys are questioning.

                        I'm pretty darn certain he meant to type:

                        R- Rescue, 3 or more personnel and known victim
                        Hopefully you are correct Dal.

                        I still say you don't have to have known victims. You can just highly suspect and still be in compliance with the policy.

                        Three am, 2 cars in the driveway, kids toys out front, no one there to greet you. That would justify not waiting for 2 in/2 out and initiating a rapid search.
                        RK
                        cell #901-494-9437

                        Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

                        "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


                        Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My size up is

                          Engine __ arrived,
                          Size of building (1 story, 1 1/2, 2 etc)
                          Type of Construction (wood Frame, ordinary, Fire Resistive, Non-combustible, Heavy timber)
                          Fire Conditions (Nothing Showing, Fire showing, etc)
                          Fire location
                          Engine __is in command and is 2x2 (we run 4 man crews and the officer and driver qualify as 2x2 till RIT is established)
                          "A" side of the building is ______ Street side
                          If I have my own water supply I will verbalize that also

                          We keep our initial size up short because dispatch repeats the entire size up. After that we will start making assignments. I.E. Water supply, Back up line, RIT, Ventilation, Primary and Secondary search etc.

                          That is a pretty standard format for us. Some guys get pretty long winded but most try and keep it short with the pertinent info.
                          www.portlandfirefighters.org
                          Portland Fire Pictures/Dick Harris

                          http://www.finsnbeasts.com

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                          • #14
                            I'm sorry I think I wrote that poorly. What I mean is that for a company to go into rescue mode you must have a minimum of 3 on your crew. with a high likely hood of a victim. we run 2 man engines here and if I know I have a victim I am not waiting for my third person to make a search. That will definatly get me written up in my dept but I wont wait 4 or so minutes when i know someone is in there. I hope this clears up what i was trying to say.
                            FOOLS
                            RFB-KTF-DTRT

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fireslayer1237 View Post
                              R- Rescue, 3 or more known victim gives you the exemption for 2 in 2 out

                              Actually, I would bet he meant something more like this:

                              R - Rescue, (requires) 3 or more (unless there is a) known victim (which) gives you the exemption for 2 in 2 out.

                              Just a guess.

                              Edit: (just saw the above post. guess I was a little late.)

                              Comment

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