Backdraft caught on video

[firenresq77]

Great find, Moe!!!

[quint1officer]

That was awesome but was that a BACK DRAFT or a SMOKE EXPLOSION. It looked as if it had already vented and they were hitting it and then it went KABOOM. I always thought a Backdraft was caused by a lack of Oxygen and then when it was Inrtroduced it went BOOM? From here it looked as if was rolling pretty good. Doesnt matter.. Glad to see the guys walk away..

good point. Maybe a smaller compartment backdraft?

[kldugas412]

WOW thats all i can say This will be shown to all at the STA. to back up the resons for PPE at the scene is a MUST!!!

[37truck]

I just took a class with Mike Dugan, Champ (both of FDNY), and Mike Wilson (BC with Charlotte FD) and they had it in their power point presentation. I believe it was said that the video came from a police dash cam in Ohio. I forget the name of the City, maybe Freeport or Freemont. It is an awesome video that I have been able to show to a couple of the classes that I have taught.

Bro, Champ was just busting my stones with the "Ohio" remark. I can tell you it didn't happen in Fremont. I could ask him if he knows where Dugan got it, but I doubt they even know where they stole it from. Stay safe.

[37truck]

Champ said that took place in the 80's in Troy, NY.

[pedalinmedic]

signs you are too bored.

know how you can tell you are too board? you spend two hours researching this video...

ok so this is what i have thus far:
January 27, 1998 is the date. A dash camera has to be correct date (if displayed) or it would be arguementive in the court system.

The US Route 5 sign is a US route by the shape...
The Route two sign is NOT a US route (It has a different shape around the number). Given the location of US Route 5, i am going to say that it is a Vermont road marker.

Also of all the towns that US Route 5 goes through, the only on that has a ST. J PD would be St. Jonesbury Vermont. (see all towns that US RT. 5 intersects at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_5)

ok I am going to quite playing detective as the wife is demanding the Dog get a bath...

[FFFRED]

Does this video reinforce any lessons on fires such as this?

FTM-PTB

[firepics]

Does this video reinforce any lessons on fires such as this?

If my eyes are right, the smoke sucking back into the building on the right side of the building, one of the indicators of a backdraft/smoke explosion???

[crankshaft]

I believe Billy G has the video already, we watched it not that long ago in one of his seminars. I believe he said no one was seriously injured.

[WaterbryVTfire]

Nope; not Ohio signs. Those signs are standard Federal Highway signs. US Route 2 and US Route 5. Route 5 runs North/South while Route 2 runs East/West. The only place these two highways cross is in St. Johnsbury, Vermont. From the directions on the street signs, my guess is that we are seeing a fire that occured on Railroad Street between Eastern Avenue and Portland Street.

I love a good mystery.

Yes, this is St. Johnsbury, Vt...I am trying to get some info on the fire.

[FFFRED]

If my eyes are right, the smoke sucking back into the building on the right side of the building, one of the indicators of a backdraft/smoke explosion???

I didn't notice that before.

I was thinking of what Chief Dunn speaks of when he mentions setting up a multi-versal or a handline in the street in front of a fire such as this. Because of the danger of Backdraft and because of collasping walls/parapets/marquees...etc. He suggests using a flanking position to either side of the occupancy involved in fire.

While the stream isn't as effective...it is much safer as we all can see in the above video.

FTM-PTB

[SPFDRum]

Another notice is it appears they are using fog nozzles in a straight stream fashion. It's amazing how much entrained air one of those can drag into a fire. Could it have contibuted? I don't know, but it's something to think about. But you won't get that air with a smooth bore.

[Chief7203]

Another notice is it appears they are using fog nozzles in a straight stream fashion. It's amazing how much entrained air one of those can drag into a fire. Could it have contibuted? I don't know, but it's something to think about. But you won't get that air with a smooth bore.

According to testing done at Rockland County NY Fire Training Center, there is little to no difference in entrained air between a smoothbore and a fog nozzle on straight stream.

Excerpt from article "Nozzle Tests Prove Fireground Realities" by Jerry Knapp Tim Pillsworth & Christopher Flatley Fire Engineering February 2004:

PHASE 1 TEST RESULTS

In phase 1 of our testing program, we designed and set up a test apparatus to capture and measure the airflow caused by the direction of a fire stream into a fire room. A single air balancer for an HVAC system measured airflow. The plan view of the apparatus is shown below.

As a result of our testing, we were able to measure an air flow into the fire area from both solid bore and combination nozzles (set on straight stream) on 1 3/4-inch attack lines flowing approximately 180 gallons per minute (gpm). From this testing, we concluded the following:


- A 15/16-inch solid bore nozzle operated at 50-psi nozzle pressure and flowing 180 gpm caused approximately 510 cfm to be moved into the fire area to which the stream was directed. When this nozzle was rotated clockwise, the airflow increased by approximately 40 percent, to 725 cubic feet per minute (cfm).

- The straight streams produced by fog nozzles using test methods similar to those described above generated almost exactly the same airflow data. After numerous tests, we concluded that the air movement by straight streams (from combination nozzles) and air movement into the fire area from solid bore nozzles was very similar, if not exactly the same.

- Combination nozzles used in the fog position cause massive air movements into the fire area. Although the quantity of air moved exceeded the measurement capability (2,000 cfm) of our instrument, through testing and researching the literature, we believe that a typical 1 3/4-inch fog line flowing 150 to 180 gpm will move 6,000 to 10,000 cfm of air into the fire area. Recall that a typical electric fire service fan will move 10,000 cfm.

True, the testing was done with 1 3/4" handlines but I would think there would be similar results with a 2 1/2" line or monitor.

Personally, my preference is smoothbore tips on a 2 1/2" line for easier manuevering at the lower required nozzle pressure and on a monitor or deck gun for ease of operation and maintenance when compared to an automatic. I'm stuck with combos on our 1 3/4" lines and as long as they're kept on straight stream is not much of an issue especially with the newer lower pressure nozzles.

[Peetmoss]

Anybody know how to save this file to a hard drive? I'd like to use it in a training presentation.

If you can't save it let me know and I will Email it to you.

[jonnyirons2]

How do i get in contact with this champ guy?