Hydrant cap chains

[Dispatcher424]

Our chains usually come off as we find them. I was always under the impression that the caps were chained to the hydrant so you didn't lose the caps (someone on this thread was talking about losing them in the snow). But to alleviate the problem of lost caps, there is a simple solution: PUT THEM IN THE HYDRANT BAG OR BOX!! If you're worried about caps blowing off of unused discharges on the hydrant, then gate all of the discharges on that hydrant before you turn on the water. IMO you should be doing that anyway in case you need those extra discharges later on, you wont have to shut down the hydrant to add onto it...

[kevmar28]

Our chains usually come off as we find them. I was always under the impression that the caps were chained to the hydrant so you didn't lose the caps (someone on this thread was talking about losing them in the snow). But to alleviate the problem of lost caps, there is a simple solution: PUT THEM IN THE HYDRANT BAG OR BOX!! If you're worried about caps blowing off of unused discharges on the hydrant, then gate all of the discharges on that hydrant before you turn on the water. IMO you should be doing that anyway in case you need those extra discharges later on, you wont have to shut down the hydrant to add onto it...

Thank you for your insightful input. Now re-read my post. THE BUSHINGS FAILED. The threaded piping flew right out with the cap. Cause? The bolts were sheared by someone who previously tightened the cap too much and sheared them off. If you could kindly explain to me how adding a gate valve to the end of it will prevent it from flying off, I am all ears. With regards to your opinion, keep it. I get all the water I need out of a LDH hose. If the fire needs more water than I can provide, then it comes from another engine, with another hydrant. That whole "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mentality. The city I protect is very good with regards to hydrant placement, so distance is never a concern.

[ChicagoFF]

Thank you for your insightful input. Now re-read my post. THE BUSHINGS FAILED. The threaded piping flew right out with the cap. Cause? The bolts were sheared by someone who previously tightened the cap too much and sheared them off. If you could kindly explain to me how adding a gate valve to the end of it will prevent it from flying off, I am all ears. With regards to your opinion, keep it. I get all the water I need out of a LDH hose. If the fire needs more water than I can provide, then it comes from another engine, with another hydrant. That whole "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mentality. The city I protect is very good with regards to hydrant placement, so distance is never a concern.

Wow, lighten up a little. Are you really getting that upset because someone misunderstood your point about hydrant chains? And as for you never gating another port on a hydrant - are you saying that there is never a need to feed two engines off of one hydrant??? Our policy is also for engines to get their own hydrant but we also gate them in case an emergency arises that requires that hydrant to supply two engines. Talk about putting all your eggs in your one working hydrant in the hopes that the others are not frozen or broken........... What if THE BUSHINGS FAILED on your second engines hydrant and the next two are frozen? A gate valve might not seem like such a bad idea then.

[Dispatcher424]

Thank you for your insightful input. Now re-read my post. THE BUSHINGS FAILED. The threaded piping flew right out with the cap. Cause? The bolts were sheared by someone who previously tightened the cap too much and sheared them off. If you could kindly explain to me how adding a gate valve to the end of it will prevent it from flying off, I am all ears. With regards to your opinion, keep it. I get all the water I need out of a LDH hose. If the fire needs more water than I can provide, then it comes from another engine, with another hydrant. That whole "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mentality. The city I protect is very good with regards to hydrant placement, so distance is never a concern.

My post was not a direct response to yours, I was simply answering the question asked by the topic starter as many others have on this thread. With regards to my opinion, if you arent interested in hearing other people's opinions you might be on the wrong kind of website.

[kevmar28]

I will gladly apologize to all parties for my post from yesterday, it was at the end of a long day and I should have probably thought a little more thoroughly before I put fingers to keyboard. ChicagoFF, you are right that it is a consideration. Normally, no, we will not attempt to feed two engines from the same hydrant. Having a second hydrant that is broken is always a concern, but here in central Florida, a frozen hydrant is not a very likely scenario. If you are speaking of temperature, at least. On an unrelated note, I would like to contact you (ChicagoFF) in relation to your department tactics with high-rise operations. Our city is getting ready to start construction on some six story townhomes. I know that this isn't normally considered a high-rise, but it is for us since it will be the highest buildings we have.

[PureAdrenalin]

I know that this isn't normally considered a high-rise, but it is for us since it will be the highest buildings we have.

It isn't a highrise? I've always been taught a buliding four stories or greater is a highrise. In most large cities, such as Chicago, a six story, would be a midrise. As for not picking up a secondary water source, or preparing to run two engines off of one plug, your only opening yourself up for issues. Remember, should that second plug fail when it's needed, you will then have to react to the failure, and correct it. Pulling line, shutting down a hydrant to connect more lines to it, and then getting it all back up and running. Do it with limited staffing, and a good worker with people trapped..it ain't gonna happen in quick fashion.

[ChicagoFF]

It isn't a highrise? I've always been taught a buliding four stories or greater is a highrise. In most large cities, such as Chicago, a six story, would be a midrise. As for not picking up a secondary water source, or preparing to run two engines off of one plug, your only opening yourself up for issues. Remember, should that second plug fail when it's needed, you will then have to react to the failure, and correct it.

No, it isn't a high rise here. I'm a terrible one to ask for specifics, but as far as I remember, a high rise here is a building that is too high to reach with our ladders (100' mains). Also, buildings under 80' are not required to have stand pipes, so if it's on the 7th floor, you will be bringing in hose and throwing it out the window. As for hydrants, like I said, two engines on one hydrant are not SOP, but the gate valve is there in case you NEED to. As a general rule here, if you want to lead out, you have your own hydrant.

Kevmar28 - I will look around for a copy of our high rise order if you want, but I'm not sure how much help it will be (unless you want to dispatch a helicopter for a silly project fire! - which we were doing when it came into effect.) It all turned into a confusing mess after the 69 W. Washington fire.

[johnny46]

I'm a terrible one to ask for specifics, but as far as I remember, a high rise here is a building that is too high to reach with our ladders (100' mains).

That's the definition I was always taught. However, we dispatch a heavy high rise box on any apartments 4 stories or greater. Maybe thats common and leads to the impression that 4 stories is a high rise.

[kevmar28]

Kevmar28 - I will look around for a copy of our high rise order if you want, but I'm not sure how much help it will be (unless you want to dispatch a helicopter for a silly project fire! - which we were doing when it came into effect.) It all turned into a confusing mess after the 69 W. Washington fire.

Anything you can provide would be most beneficial. My city is 90% single family residential with some limited, but rapidly expanding commercial structures. I would like to get tactical opinions, SOPs, whatever I can get to help in the development of our training and SOPs. And yes, I totally agree, the gate valve is there in case I need it. I've never had to use it for that situation, but of course I understand that there is always a possibility of that happening.

[ChicagoFF]

http://www.iaff-local2.org/

Look under the Vice Presidents page and you will find a few notes from last years high rise conference. It's not much but it's something to read while I try and find a copy of the order.

[kevmar28]

Thank you, this is exactly the type of stuff I am looking for.

[firemanmikey]

Where i'm from in Alberta, Canada we tend to get out fair share of snow, and we too teach the rookies to put the caps in the bag as soon as they remove them from the hydrant. When they don't , we make the rookie who dropped them in the snow find them and dig them out. As for chains, I think we don't have any on our hydrants. We don't have any problem with the theft of caps and then shoving junk down the discharges. This only happens on the buildings with FDC's.

Mike

[tfpd109]

Where I'm from, we don't cut the chains unless they are too short. Sometimes they are so short you cant hardly get the caps off. It's pretty simple, in the way, cut them, if not, leave them.

[ChicagoFF]

Anything you can provide would be most beneficial. My city is 90% single family residential with some limited, but rapidly expanding commercial structures. I would like to get tactical opinions, SOPs, whatever I can get to help in the development of our training and SOPs. And yes, I totally agree, the gate valve is there in case I need it. I've never had to use it for that situation, but of course I understand that there is always a possibility of that happening.

Still want that high rise info?

[BMAIGM]

When we are out doing hydrants or ever come across a chain on a run...we break it. As chauff said, the chain impeeds quick removal of the cap. We also only put the 4" cap (if there is one) back on with only a few turns...same reasoning...when I get to the hydrant, I should only have to give it a quick hand over hand twist and the thing should fall off. I can't speak for the rest of my job, but this is what my company does.

i know the engine in my house does this as well. the truck will too depending on who's working, usually if there's a former engine guy, they get cut. bottomline- they do nothing but delay the ECC.