Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

1st due to commercial bldgs?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bones42
    replied
    Hmmm, I helped spec this one. And it will be 20 years before it's replaced. We have 4 "main" vehicles and get to replace one every 5 years. Starting work on our 2010 now, which will most likely be an engine rescue type. We went back and forth a lot over the mid-mount rear-mount. Street level operations were discussed, however the ability to work quickly over the front with very little "wiggle" room to swing a mid-mount around is more of a common chance here than the rare occurrence of the ground level master stream attack. We are cursed with lots of low trees and overhead power lines. The increased storage space on a rear mount was attractive as well.


    And I remember back in late 80's when we were speccing our 1991 50' Teleboom, the committee was sold on a rear mount until we got a midmount here to play with. We could set that up with little problem, get under wires, and get to places the rear mount had trouble getting to. But then again, that was a 50' as opposed to the 100'. Funny how we found different results with the different ladder lengths.

    My advice, get demos and try them in your area when you can.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    One advantage of a rearmount over a midmount is deployment over the cab for very quick rescues. You can nose right up to the target and deploy the ladder straight out and up, minimal positioning needed. Of course, you lose the entire length of the truck that way, which is the entire base section, leaving you only the mid and fly sections for reach. With a midmount you'd have to either back in or work off the side, taking a bit more time to set up, obviously. The disadvantages of rearmounts are that they're usually only 3 sections which isn't as compact. So aside from the obvious increased height of the truck and bucket hanging over the front of the cab, they also need more room to deploy to the ground off the side of the truck, as we're discussing here.

    The biggest disadvantage to midmounts is you're very limited operating over the cab. Although if the truck is positioned correctly, I don't really see it as much of a disadvantage. There aren't many calls where you're going to need to operate 360 degrees like that, but if that is a concern or factor for anyone looking at midmount vs rearmount, then the rearmount is probably the way to go as you can operate a full 360 degrees without much restriction at all.
    Last edited by Chauffer6; 09-25-2006, 06:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • GFDLT1
    replied
    Nate and everyone thanks for the learning experience. I haven't really ever thought about which (rear or midmount) would be more effective until now. We have only had to use our tower (104' 2001 Pierce Rear mount) once so far for this application. We were fortionate enough to have plenty of room to set up so that we could get street level and shoot up. This brings up another topic, what advantages does a rear mount have over a mid-mount? Our department new to the business of having an aerial as this is our first one and we have only had it for 5 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • NDeMarse
    replied
    Bones,

    In my old job we had a 2003 (or '04) Pierce Quantum Tower Ladder which had to be spotted at the opposite curb to produce the desired tactic that I had previously described. I understand your pain if you have tight streets and cannot perform this operation, but if you can place the rig properly when given the opportunity, it works very well.

    I am sure you got my point from the looks of your post that it is better to throw the water from the street than above the roof line, which only spreads the fire laterally in the cockloft further. If your TL is a 2006, it doesn't look like you are going to get the chance to be on a spec committee for a mid-mount for about 15 years!

    Just remember guys, you have to work on these things. Spec the rig to work for you. Using the master stream at "street level" is one of the best uses for a tower ladder and is much more tough to perform with a rear mount than a mid-mount. Just something to keep in mind. They aren't just for throwing water at a building!

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Bones42
    Rear mount. 100' 2006 Pierce. We also have a 50' E-One Teleboom that goes to ground level with no problem on the drivers side....so guess who gets the front.
    Yeah, rearmounts usually have too long a base section to get to ground level for those types of operations, unless you set the rig up clear across the street! Nice rig you guys got there, btw.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bones42
    replied
    Rear mount. 100' 2006 Pierce. We also have a 50' E-One Teleboom that goes to ground level with no problem on the drivers side....so guess who gets the front.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fire58Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bones42
    And while I agree with NDeMarse on the "street" level operation of the TL, it's not very practical in most of my situations. Unfortunately, due to the size of the TL, jack spread, and street width...it's almost impossible to get it at street level in a good bunch of my area. We use portable deck guns to accomplish the same task and they work almost as well.
    Bones,
    Just curious to know if the TL you're refering to is a rear mount or mid-mount?
    It seems a shame to have a rig that can't be used to full advantage. The street level operation of TL streams at taxpayer/storefront fires is very effective due to the exceptional mobility of the large caliber stream.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bones42
    replied
    And while I agree with NDeMarse on the "street" level operation of the TL, it's not very practical in most of my situations. Unfortunately, due to the size of the TL, jack spread, and street width...it's almost impossible to get it at street level in a good bunch of my area. We use portable deck guns to accomplish the same task and they work almost as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • cellblock
    replied
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChicagoFF
    replied
    Originally posted by cellblock
    I was wondering that myself. What is TL?
    T ower L adder

    Leave a comment:


  • NDeMarse
    replied
    Originally posted by cellblock
    I was wondering that myself. What is TL?
    Cellblock,

    A TL is short for "Tower Ladder" or an aerial ladder with a work platform.

    Aerial ladders can be referred to as ladder, truck or aerial ladders. Some departments even call their tower ladders, "trucks" or "ladders".

    Leave a comment:


  • cellblock
    replied
    Originally posted by mcfd45
    what is a TL, truck or ladder?
    J
    I was wondering that myself. What is TL?

    Leave a comment:


  • JAFA62
    replied
    Well we have a Engine on the 1st in assignment and the ladder second.Followed up by a 2nd engine 3rd in. We always leave side "A" for the ladder. 1st in Engine is attack or S&R. The 2nd in Engine takes on the standpipe and water supply. sometimes the ladder is parked on the building corners if rescue is an issue. Once its committed were stuck with that dicision. We never have the ladder lead in.

    Leave a comment:


  • NDeMarse
    replied
    While I agree with Jaimie and Steve about the Engines needing to get in first and get water on the fire, I think that room should be left in front of the store for a TOWER LADDER. Even an aerial ladder should leave room for a Tower Ladder in front of the store so that in the event that the fire does go defensive (and lets face it, many times we do), the bucket can be dropped to the storefront level and we can sweep the store and underside of the roof with the master stream to knock down an advanced fire condition. Notice I didn't say pour water through the roof vent holes that we worked so hard to cut for the past 20 minutes!

    Aerial Ladders don't do much for us at these buildings. Most of the buildings are 1 story and can be easily reached with a straight ladder (20') or 24' extension. If an aerial ladder can hit the roof and still leave enough room for a tower ladder or two then by all means set them up for more access/egress options. Like I said before, with the manpower, building construction, fire load and advanced fire conditions on arrival, we do not get a chance to get the upper hand and remain offensive on these fires.

    In short, the engine should roll first to start what we are there to do: Put water on the fire. The Aerial Ladder if it is first due should leave room for a later arriving tower ladder even if it is not on the assignment yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChicagoFF
    replied
    Here positioning is never an issue. It's always the same and the truck always gets the front of the building with first engine in front of it and second engine backing down on it. If the only reason a TL is your first due is to get it in front, you should just train everyone to leave the front open for it and let the engines do their job.

    Leave a comment:

300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

Collapse

Upper 300x250

Collapse

Taboola

Collapse

Leader

Collapse
Working...
X