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Hose Reel instead of Crosslay

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  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Fire58Dog
    RFD: My intent wasn't to dismiss your department's idea, just pointing out some potential pitfalls with that particular hose setup.
    No problem brother, no offense taken! Just bouncing ideas and thoughts around here. We're looking to make more room in our rescue pumper body and moving the preconnects to the front and rear so the roll style load seems viable. We just don't have more than 1 or 2 FFer's on the firstdue engine to dediciate to a proper rear bed stretch (would be our preffered if possible).
    Originally posted by Fire58Dog
    The problem with the front bumper line is it takes almost the entire first 50 feet just to get to the back step. If they pull past the house they may stretch short. We are all human and we all make mistakes. By designing the rigs to complement the way we would ideally operate, we can reduce or eliminate some potential problems.
    This is where loading your hose for your first due area is most important. If you know you are going to pass the fire building as a matter of course, then your hose load should reflect the distnace needed to get to the yard. Of course this is the reason we're looking at having a rear 200 ft. preconnected roll. While the obvious traditional rear hose bed comes to mind, we also will hae coffin compartments above and need to have room for LDH, 2 1/2" and a 3" Bomb line.

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  • Bones42
    replied
    The problem with the front bumper line is it takes almost the entire first 50 feet just to get to the back step. If they pull past the house they may stretch short.
    And if the engine has to stop short of the scene becuase the truck is there and they pull off the back, they will be short again cuz of that same 50 feet. So putting it in the middle balances out that equation.

    Leave a comment:


  • quint1officer
    replied
    Is that an electric reel?

    Leave a comment:


  • Fire58Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM02
    I was merely trying to show another alternative to the expense (money and space) of reels. Our next pumper will probably have both ends with bumper rolls and no crosslays. Sadly our staffing will not allow for a flat stretch off the rear on most jobs. Most stretches are completed by one firefighter who is joined by the FE man and an officer at the point the line will be charged at(no not always outside).

    While I agree on the problems of positioning... we just hold the officer accountable for positioning. Works for us. Poor positioning, poor stretches, poor tactics = poor officers. Proper training, discipline and directions = smooth operations. In actualality I prefer letting the first due truck in the block first to get position and let the hose land where it may.
    RFD: My intent wasn't to dismiss your department's idea, just pointing out some potential pitfalls with that particular hose setup. I can't imagine pulling an 1 3/4" line off a reel but if works for someone else, why shouldn't they? As always, what works in my department and response area might not work in yours. For example: in my department, the truck is coming from some distance away and "never" gets to the block before the first due engine. If your truck "always" enters the block first, that's different. We are also understaffed, that's why we do everything possible to get it right the first time, every time. Stretching short can result in disaster on the fireground, as can blocking out the truck.
    Originally posted by Bones42
    Personally, I have seen well placed engines with crosslays and I have seen poorly placed engines with rear hose lines. If where the hose on your engine is determining how "well" you locate your engine, you have bigger issues to deal with.
    I have worked in engines with this hose load and while I agree that the problem is largely a training issue, the way the rig is set up can and does contribute to the problem.
    The photo attached in my last post illustrates this point. The company in this photo is a busy one and probably consider themselves the originators of the 150 foot X 1 1/2" "bumper line" for structure fires. As you can see they have not pulled past the address, they are squarely in front of it, blocking out the truck in the process. The problem with the front bumper line is it takes almost the entire first 50 feet just to get to the back step. If they pull past the house they may stretch short. We are all human and we all make mistakes. By designing the rigs to complement the way we would ideally operate, we can reduce or eliminate some potential problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • skipatrol8
    replied
    though i cant tell...

    ...it looks like this truck has crosslays, reeled attack lines, and an LDH reel. wow.

    http://www.nefirenews.org/mass/PepperellE1new.jpg

    As far LDH reels, our neighboring and all but sister department has this, which is a 1990 Mack MR/Ranger 2000gpm with around 5000' of LDH on 2 reels. It works great, as we dont have very many hydrants. The only water it carries is what is left in the pump.

    http://www.pafirefighter.net/Extreme/sherborn.asp

    Leave a comment:


  • quint1officer
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator
    I am not a fan of crosslays, which is what we use exclusivly on my current department. 8 times out of 10 it ends up on the ground in the pile and I find it tends to very much hamper the pump operator.
    What kind of crosslay are you using? Granted, we dump 100' on the ground, but its not there for a minute before its stretched. We pack a split minuteman, 100' and the nozzle go on the shoulder, 100' get pulled and stretched. Seems to work well with our setbacks.

    Actually, I just saw a rear mount rip and run shaft the crew. The engine stopped, and the line was needed to be placed more to the front of the apparatus. Definitely a 2-3 man operation to put that into place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bones42
    replied
    Personally, I have seen well placed engines with crosslays and I have seen poorly placed engines with rear hose lines. If where the hose on your engine is determining how "well" you locate your engine, you have bigger issues to deal with.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    I have been lucky enough to serve on departments that used only crosslays, only rear bed loads and reels and rear bed loads. Being able to use all 3 loads have given me some perspective on this issue.

    The load I prefer the most is the rear bed load, followed very closely by reels. The reason I prefer the rearbed load is quite simple .. it keeps the hose and the firefighters pulling the hose out of the way of the pump operator. Also, there tends to be more room at the rear of the truck initially to work, as compared to the side which may be obstructed with parked cars, snowbanks, utility poles and other stuff.

    In place of rear loads, my second choice is reels. It elimates an chance of the dreaded hose pile in front of the pump panel. The pump operator can still work while the line is pulled and all he has to do is break the line and make the connection.

    I am not a fan of crosslays, which is what we use exclusivly on my current department. 8 times out of 10 it ends up on the ground in the pile and I find it tends to very much hamper the pump operator.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Fire58Dog
    The problem with front bumper lines is the same as the problem with crosslays, they can lead to bad positioning habits like stopping directly in front of the address instead of pulling past it to leave room for the truck.
    I was merely trying to show another alternative to the expense (money and space) of reels. Our next pumper will probably have both ends with bumper rolls and no crosslays. Sadly our staffing will not allow for a flat stretch off the rear on most jobs. Most stretches are completed by one firefighter who is joined by the FE man and an officer at the point the line will be charged at(no not always outside).

    While I agree on the problems of positioning... we just hold the officer accountable for positioning. Works for us. Poor positioning, poor stretches, poor tactics = poor officers. Proper training, discipline and directions = smooth operations. In actualality I prefer letting the first due truck in the block first to get position and let the hose land where it may.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fire58Dog
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM02
    Take a look in the apparatus forum for rolled bumper lines. It seems a few in PG Co. and the guys up in Sister Bay WI have mastered the load which is great. We're lloking a switching over to it.
    The problem with front bumper lines is the same as the problem with crosslays, they can lead to bad positioning habits like stopping directly in front of the address instead of pulling past it to leave room for the truck.
    Attached Files

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  • Res343cue
    replied
    Originally posted by Steeda83
    love you too hunny
    Go take a flying f**k.

    I'm not your "hunny", thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • ResqShrek
    replied
    not having crosslays also encourages people to pull past the structure involved..... and this leaves room for the other companies.... aka the truck

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  • needlejockey
    replied
    Originally posted by nyckftbl
    If you rely solely on crosslays, in some areas (not saying yours, so I dont want the speech), then yeah, buckets might be faster than shortstretching and adding lengths.
    No argument from me on that. We have an engine that lacks crosslays, so I understand the use.

    Leave a comment:


  • nyckftbl
    replied
    Originally posted by needlejockey
    And how do you suggest we get the water to the fire with? Carry it in buckets?

    If you rely solely on crosslays, in some areas (not saying yours, so I dont want the speech), then yeah, buckets might be faster than shortstretching and adding lengths.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steeda83
    replied
    Originally posted by Res343cue
    That's already been discussed.... We're just waiting for him to trip up and confirm it.

    love you too hunny

    Leave a comment:

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