Offensive or Defensive

[grasstrimmer]

How does everyone decide when to go in or when to let it burn? Some of the neighboring departments in our area think that if you can't save all of the house it is not worth fighting, so just make sure that the next one doesn't catch. My department on the other hand dissagrees with this, and we think that is there is a room that you can safely go into then do it. Does anyone have any guidelines or ideas on how far gone is to far?
I suppose everyone agrees that if all the walls are down you cant do much, but what about if it is a seven or eight room home and the porch and first two room in front are gone?(or somthing like that)

[firewhiskey23]

I agree with you. If there is something worth saving then save it. I dont agree with standing in the yard and looking at it burn when half the house was good when you got there. And please dont **** into a window when the other half is good. But the other side of a token says dont go ape sh*t when 99% is going and you are trying to put a mark on your lid for good looks. Your jut going to hurt somebody.
just my thoughts.

[mcfd45]

just remember this is the house or anything in it going to be saved? is the owner on the phone with the insurance people right now? is it worth your life to save a foundation? if you can save something go for it if not hit it from the windows?

[MEDIC0372]

Life safety is #1...everything comes after life safety.

[THEFIRENUT]

First of all, I would like to make a couple of statements:
I believe in aggressive firefighting!
I believe in risk management!
(If you are able to put the two together, then you should be doing a good job at the fire scene. )

With this being said.......I don't think that there is such a thing as "saving a room". If you do save part of the structure, will the homeowner be able just repair what was damaged or will the whole thing be demolished so that they can start from scratch. Between fire, heat, smoke and water damage....it is ALL "damage".

Depending on manpower, equipment and training, you may have to protect the exposures and let the fire burn itself out. If you are able to save some of the homeowners possessions without risking life or limb, then great. You are doing what the community needs you to do.

All in all, just remember what MEDIC0372 posted......."Life safety is #1"

[ewelk33]

1) Get in there and search

2) Get in there and put the fire out

3) Take up and have some ice cream

Seven or eight room house with two rooms involved in fire, you better get in there and put it out. Thats the bread and butter of what we do!

[fireman4949]

1) Get in there and search

2) Get in there and put the fire out

3) Take up and have some ice cream

Seven or eight room house with two rooms involved in fire, you better get in there and put it out. Thats the bread and butter of what we do!

Amen!

I'm with ya Brother!



Kevin

[Haweater]

Just because the house will end up being tore down in a week doesn't mean you don't go in. If you can safely get some of the contents out, go for it. Yeah, they might stink, but where else you gonna get a picture of great-great-grandpa with Thomas Edison?
Some things are worth saving (if it can be done without high risk to life) even if the house will be demolished. Put it out, go home. It's faster to attack then to spray from the sidewalk.
Cheers,
Gord

[mikeyboy411]

I agree.......

I agree with FIRENUT, there are a lot of things to consider. I still don't understand why we feel the need to just run on in....... I am aggressive, but let's be smart here...... Endangering yourself and your crew to "save" a room doesn't make sense. Can the occupant live in that one room? If it's only one room you're gonna save, I say just get the personal possessions out, call the Red Cross or whatever help your community has and let them rebuild. I am sure that somebody will say "great way to promote your public image" to that I say this, jeopardizing your safety for your "public image" is rediculous..... Risk a lil' to gain a lot, let's not Risk a lot to gain a lil'.........

[SPFDRum]

It's not about saving "a room". It's about saving a structure and the rest of "the rooms". To do that, you need to get to the seat of the fire and confine it, and then extinguish it. If you want any respect as a firefighter, you had at-least be able to do that. PS, this isn't done from the street....
The literal, lock step following of the "save a little, risk a little...." is turning a whole new generation of firefighters' into a bunch of pansies.
Besides, it is about public image. I'm a full-time career firefighter supported by my city and its taxes. If I let everything burn down because it might be a risk, it won't take long for those tax payers to realize they don't need 400 of us. Maybe just 10 or 15 to be spectators. With really great seats I may add.
Our Mission statement states: "To protect the life and property of the people in St. Paul by providing quality service by dedicated professionals." No where in there did it state "unless it may pose a risk" or otherwise be scary for some.

[JTFIRE80]

Risk vs. Benefit

I believe the saying goes like this:

Risk a lot to save a lot,
Risk a little to save a little!!

[LaFireEducator]

Staying out of this discussion. Actually, I'm sure most people know my feelings on this topic.

[nyckftbl]

Staying out of this discussion. Actually, I'm sure most people know my feelings on this topic.

So why even bother posting in this thread

[ChicagoFF]

....................

[mikeyboy411]

grasstrimmer.....

Grasstrimmer,
With the scenario that you brought up in your first post, I say get in and get the job done..... If possible, come in from the uninvolved side and start your fire attack when you reach the fire......
I am always enertained when I hear crews say "man, that was a great save" and then when you go by and look at their "save" its little more than one room. You saved a room..... good for you. My favorite was when a crew was going off duty and telling us about how they saved this mobile home this one time....... we went by and the Insurance Adjuster was there. My Captain, myself and our FFs were talking to the Adjuster, we all got a good laugh when the Adjuster said "this is what you guys call a save, right? Just so that you know, we are going to put the wheels back on and tow the house outta here tomorrow." Come to find out, even with a lil' bit of damage this company prefers just to tow 'em off and replace them.
When we told the crew about what the Adjuster said they all kinda chuckled..... "figures" is what I can remember one of them even saying.

Just like in the Standard Fire Orders for wildland firefighting....... "Fight fire aggressively, having provided for safety first." It used to say "Fight fire aggressively, providing for safety first." If the fire/smoke conditions, building construction, manpower, water supply, the Departments Policies and training of the crew all support an interior attack then get the job done. If not, then re-evaluate and do whatcha can.