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Forcing entry with a hoseline

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  • #16
    Originally posted by fdsq10
    Come on thats what they make forcible entry tools for, and why would you MULE kick a door to force it open, what about control of the door, 80 90% of the time it works. How about a hydra ram or hallagan tool 100% of the time
    If the truck is busy, I have no problem kicking my own door in and have done so many times. Why wait? As for door control, it is rare that that is an issue in a standard house fire. If the room is rolling - well, I do have a hose. Spray some water and call it a day.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    • #17
      Small dept here, so our hose teams do carry thier own FE tools most of the time (and also search, but that's another thread ).

      At least an axe is always brought, but many prefer the Pry-axe or Haligan. I don't argue as long as they get the job done.

      Whatever works for your crews...
      Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

      IACOJ

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      • #18
        Chicago FF:

        Ditto your thoughts....in a perfect world the truck is already on scene and has popped the door. We are fortunate enough to catch a fair amount of fires in Rockford and I have never worried about controlling the door. That is not to say something couldn't happen.....but I have never seen it. I have been assigned to both a truck and an engine. When assigned to the ladder I carried the irons, my axe, and the TIC and when assigned to the engine I carry my axe and the knob. You can force the door a dozen ways with different tools, but with most residential doors a quick kick will do the trick.

        In response to the hydra-ram, we take the "rabbet tool" to open doors in our high rises, low rises, and housing projects. This works well but is very time consuming when opening mutliple doors.....i.e. we caught a good fire at a three story motel/extended stay filled with vagrants, drug dealers, and prostitutes. On arrival, we had people hanging out of mutliple windows. One engine and ladder company laddered the building to rescue victims in the windows. We made entry and four of us kicked in all of the second floor doors. This occurred much quicker than trying to use a "rabbet tool" or halligan on these metal framed doors in moderate smoke conditions to conduct our search. Is that by the book, no, but let's face it you can throw a thousand textbooks at the fire and it still will not go out. Stay safe and use all of the tools in your toolbox....including common sense.

        rfd599
        www.IllinoisFireStore.com

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        • #19
          we run 1 engine and 1 ladder . thats all we get unless we call in the off duty. so we should be bringing a tool up to the house with us . most of the guys here have a hard time doing that do to our lack of fires and their tunnel vision. i have a 36 inch wrecking bar that i pet named Baxter and they make fun of me for always having it with me BUT when we are inside and they realize they need a tool they always look for me.Baxter can do anything he is light weight so i can hold him and manage a line , he can force doors take windows pull drywall or metal roofs.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rfd599
            Chicago FF:
            We made entry and four of us kicked in all of the second floor doors. This occurred much quicker than trying to use a "rabbet tool" or halligan on these metal framed doors in moderate smoke conditions to conduct our search. Is that by the book, no, but let's face it you can throw a thousand textbooks at the fire and it still will not go out. Stay safe and use all of the tools in your toolbox....including common sense.

            rfd599
            www.IllinoisFireStore.com
            I couldn't agree more.
            I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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            • #21
              Tools, tools, tools

              Like the American Express Card, I never leave home without my halligan.
              A wise old instructor once told me a FF with no tools is just a civilian with protective clothing and breathing air.

              On the other note about using the hoseline as a FE.... I've got nothing???

              Be safe
              Bryan

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              • #22
                If that technique works for you by mule kicking the door then thats your technique. Thats ok for inward swinging doors, what's your technique for outward swinging doors. Have I done it before, yes I have, but still prefer the using the proper tools they have not failed me yet. I guess it's all about what you think is the right way. Common senes you bet. Please Define a standard house fire. As for the "RABBIT TOOL" the hydra ram is a rabbit tool it's just a one piece tool rather than the two piece boat anchor carried in a bag. FDNY forced over 1000 doors during the first WTC incident using hydra rams, and during the black out they forced over 200 doors with the hydra ram. We purchased one for each truck company and our 2 heavy squads and they have been used alot with out any complaints. STAY SAFE

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                • #23
                  Cap:

                  You are taking this way too personal. My remarks were made in jest regarding the first post. Have I kicked doors in....yes....will I continue to kick doors in.....yes, if I don't have a set of irons, halligan, axe, ram, "rabbet tool", K-12, Vent Saw or the truck company present. Is there a proper way to force entry.....absolutely, but this entirely depends on your still, town, district, types of construction, socio-economic status of the area, high-rise, low-rise, single-family, multi-family, new construction, etc.....That is how most everyone I know chooses their weapon of choice.

                  How do I force an outward swinging door? Again, it depends on what area of town I am going but it could be my axe, irons, knife, or K-12.

                  Use your head and stay safe. Again, firefighting is more than reading a textbook or going to a few drills. If you think the nozzle idea works, then try it, but find a number of ways that work for you or your company and use them. The more tools in the toolbox, then the better off you will be.

                  rfd599
                  www.IllinoisFireStore.com

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                  • #24
                    Ok, I not in the business of bashing you or am I taking this personnal. We all have our ways of taking care of business, I'm one for not using my body to do the job that tools were designed for. So if you feel like I am bashing you I'm not and I'm man enough to applogize. Your in a department that sees alot of fires and you do whats best for you in your situation thats your choice. Again, I agree with some of your statements, this job is more about reading texbooks and going to a few drills. We have buildings that the 8lb maul is our tool of choice due to the type of door, and some have up to 3-4 deadbolt locks attached, and in some areas a set of irons, hydra ram are the tools needed. I'm still not sold on the nozzle technique. Common sense is in our tool box. STAY SAFE it's all good!!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fdsq10
                      Please Define a standard house fire.
                      A couple of heron users lighting the bed on fire, it spreads nicely and when you get there you have fire blowing out the windows on the third floor of a three flat, you know, a standard house fire.
                      I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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                      • #26
                        Ok, Thanks. STAY SAFE!!!

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                        • #27
                          Cap:

                          Thanks for the clarification! I did forget the maul (sledge) and it is a great tool, I need to add that to my list.

                          My favorite standard house fire is a molotov cocktail through the front picture window because it burns hot, fast and usually has a pretty good head start. Nobody like to go to a fire with only one room going!

                          rfd599
                          www.IllinoisFireStore.com

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                            A couple of heron users...

                            Man, that stuff is bad for you.
                            Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                            ...on the third floor of a three flat...
                            Is that the same as a triple decker? I asked in this thread , but I never got an answer.

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                            • #29
                              heron users

                              thats funny i don't care who you are.
                              J
                              It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mcaldwell
                                I don't think they are suggesting using the water stream, as that would be a recipe for a serious kick in the ***, but rather the rigid hose line with the nozzle as the battering ram.

                                There is no reason it wouldn't work, as the hose is both heavy and rigid if applied straight and level with a rapid motion.

                                I don't know that I would want my guys using a new $1500.00 automatic to do it though (at least when there is a haligan on the truck). But hey, another tool in the box...
                                It may be another idea to consider but like you said" New $1500 automatic"....
                                Anyone suggesting using a nozzle of any price as a battering ram should try it first and then tell the rest of us how it worked out,when he showed the jury rigged FE tool to his officer.
                                I don't know how I could justify beating the tar out of a nozzle to open a door when even a hose team should carry an axe or hallagan to open doors so's we could spray water into the fire.

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