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  • High Rise Packs ?

    I am looking to recreate my departments highrise packs and wanted to know what others opinions were.
    What do your highrise pack consist of?
    Are you using bags or straps to secure your HR packs?
    What do you all think is best?

    Thx
    To us and those like us because theres damn few of us.
    Leather Forever!!
    www.capitalareafools.org FTM-PTB 4 UPS

  • #2
    Best is 2 1/2 inch hose with 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 smoothbore tip. Our engines have 3 lengths 2 1/2 folded into individual horseshoes held with velcro straps and a tool bag with shoulder strap that contains: nozzle, 2 1/2 inline pressure gauge, pipe wrench, spanners, wire brush to clean rusty standpipes, visegrip, spare standpipe valve handle, 45 degree elbow and door chocks. I think thats all, someone will chime in if I forgot anything.

    Comment


    • #3
      Im not sure I completely understand the question, but here goes:

      4 rolled lengths of 2 1/2" hose with 1 1/8" MST

      In a bag, that the control man ( The guy who stays at the standpipe outlet) carries:
      Spanner wrench
      extra operating wheel
      adapters
      Pipe wrench 18"
      Guages
      Nozzles
      Chocks.

      These are basically what every engine carries, but each company adds or changes certain things based on their response area.

      Forgot the wire brush, good one.

      Our rolled lengths are held together by the same straps that everyone makes for their helmets, or seatbelt type straps, from a backboard. Both work well, but sometimes the regular straps are a pain in the ***, and we usually end up cutting them when we need them.
      Last edited by nyckftbl; 02-17-2006, 01:12 PM.
      Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

      Comment


      • #4
        there are two lines of thought here.

        the FDNY and othe big city guys will say use a 200 feet of 2 1/2 inch hose with a smoothbore nozzle.

        the rest of the world will say use 200 feet of 1 3/4 hose with a fog nozzle.

        My first department had bags, they were a pain in the butt to use and pack. My new one has straps. I would definately go with straps, much easier.

        for more info, do a search.
        If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

        FF/EMT/DBP

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow...only 4 posts on the subject and already someone is trying to stir the sh*t.


          This thread was not created (assumption here, but whatever) to cause a friggin debate! He simply asked what everyone uses. If you want to post jackass comments, do it on a thread that already went down the crapper.


          http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?p=640893#post640893

          And just for those who think this is an FDNY or big city thing: http://fe.pennnet.com/articles/artic...S=Comella&p=25

          In February 1991, the Philadelphia (PA) Fire Department had a disastrous experience dealing with a fire in the One Meridian Plaza building. At the time, the Philadelphia Fire Department used 13/4-inch hose and automatic fog nozzles for standpipe operations. At numerous sessions of the Fire Department Instructors Conference (FDIC) Engine Company Operations Class, Denver (CO) Fire Department Battalion Chief David McGrail replicated the outlet pressures (40-45 psi) that existed at the One Meridian Plaza fire. Consistently, 13/4-inch hose with an automatic tip flows less than 50 gpm while 21/2-inch line with a 11/8-inch tip achieves flows in the range of 200 to 210 gpm. This concurs with information found in Fornell's Fire Stream Management Handbook. The building eventually was demolished. The loss of the building, however, is inconsequential when compared with the loss of three members of the Philadelphia Fire Department. The tragic loss of these members was caused in no small part by poor weapons selection. The Philadelphia Fire Department now uses 21/2-inch hose and 11/8-inch smooth-bore nozzles for standpipe operations. Hopefully, it will not take more tragedies of this nature for other departments to rethink their weapons selection for standpipe operations.
          Proper consideration for members' safety demands the use of 21/2-inch hose and smooth-bore nozzles for standpipe operations. NFPA 14, Standard for Standpipe Systems, was developed based on the use of 150 feet of 21/2-inch hose equipped with a 11/8-inch smooth-bore nozzle. Depending on which of the two versions of the standard a given standpipe system was de-signed under, outlet pressures can be either 65 psi (old criteria) or 100 psi (new criteria). Outlet pressures such as these simply will not meet the friction loss requirements for smaller-diameter hose, especially in conjunction with 75-psi or 100-psi nozzles.
          Many standpipe systems have pressure-reducing valves that are not field-adjust-able. This means that no matter what pressure fire department pumpers pump into the system, outlet pressure will not rise above a given outlet's rated pressure. As Fire Department of New York Battalion Chief John Norman states in Fire Officer's Handbook of Tactics (Fire Engineering, 1998), to use anything other than 21/2-inch hose and smooth-bore nozzles for standpipe operations is to use the standpipe system in a manner other than that for which it was designed. Prior to becoming a member of the professional fire service, Norman was a fire protection engineer and made his living designing sprinkler and standpipe systems.
          All quotes from the linked article.
          Last edited by nyckftbl; 02-17-2006, 01:41 PM.
          Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ours is made up of 2" lite-weight hose, 3" lite-weight hose a 75psi TFT nozzle, a lite-weight gated wye, 2 Milwaukee (sp?) strapes and an equipment bag.

            One strape holds a 100' section of 2" and the nozzle. The second strape holds another 100' section of 2", the wye and a 10' section of 3". The equipment bag holds spanners, wrenches, fittings and chocks.

            We set it up this way to divide the load between two FF's. When we go into a hi-rise, one FF carries the one strape and the irons and the other carries the second strape and the bag. The 3" is hooked to the standpipe and the wye lays on the floor and the 2" is connected to one side. This leaves the other side of the wye for incomming companies.

            We use 2" hose as it gives us more GPM then 1 3/4" without being manpower intensive like 2 1/2". I would prefer a solid bore nozzle, but untill Im Chief, I guess it will be the TFT. Then again, I feel the same way about our pre-connect nozzles.

            As for 2 1/2" and solid v fog. All but one of our hi-rise buildings are "open hallway" design. All are CBC construction. All are "compartmentized". We do not have city block x city block size hi-rises. We do not have any over 12 stories. All are residential. Most are sprinklered. None have reducing valves in the standpipes. We do not have a problem with vandals. All systems are tested and certified on a regualr basis.

            If this is not the case in your area, a serious look at 2 1/2" /solid bore nozzles is recomended.

            If you would like a photo of our set up, send me an e-mail.
            Last edited by Dave1983; 02-17-2006, 02:58 PM.
            Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

            IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

            "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
            RUSH-Tom Sawyer

            Success is when skill meets opportunity
            Failure is when fantasy meets reality

            Comment


            • #7
              My F.D. carries the following in our highrise compartment:

              150' 1.75" DJ w/ 15/16" Smooth Bore secured w/ old Backboard Straps and some sort of cheap vinyl cover to wrap and protect hose in the compartment.

              6' Piece of 3" Hose to Connect to Standpipe with a 2.5" x (2) 1.5" Wye on the end of the hose (We found this easier because the wye is on the floor and easier connect in a smoky environment).

              Over the shoulder bag with the following:

              Spanners
              Bolt Cutters
              Wood Chocks
              Pipe Wrench
              Adapters
              (1) Piece of Sidewalk Chalk (in a Sharps Shuttle)
              (1) Strobe/LED Light to mark stairwell entrance
              Laminated Accountability Sheet with an Attached Grease Pencil (One officer monitors companies working on the fire floor).

              I think that is all we have in our highrise kit. Note: This is only for our engine companies. Our ladders carry a different complement of tools.

              rfd599
              www.IllinoisFireStore.com

              Comment


              • #8
                We use 150' of 1 3/4" hose with a low pressure Chief nozzle that has a 15/16" in the shut off.
                I would go with 2 1/2" with a smooth bore.
                All of our "high rises" are residential so we havent been pinched YET, but some day it will happen. The flow we get from the fog is OK for the average room or two in an appartment.
                If given the choice I would not take a knife to a gun fight.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DrParasite
                  there are two lines of thought here.

                  the FDNY and othe big city guys will say use a 200 feet of 2 1/2 inch hose with a smoothbore nozzle.

                  the rest of the world will say use 200 feet of 1 3/4 hose with a fog nozzle.
                  Hopefully what youre trying to say is that the "big city" guys are right and the rest of the people that persist that it isnt necessary are wrong.

                  They advocate this arrangment because it works....period. Many places insist on maintaining 1 1/2 and 1 3/4" hose packs. Since they are almost never used for true standpipe evolutions, it never becomes an issue. We have 2" hose, I'd be happier with 2 1/2" but I'm, not the decision maker.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No, I'm not saying one group is right while the other is wrong. Don't try to put me in the middle of an arguement, I can do that all on my own.

                    all I am saying is that different groups do things differently. I'll let thsoe who have more experience with highrise fires duke it out.
                    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

                    FF/EMT/DBP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MG3610
                      Hopefully what youre trying to say is that the "big city" guys are right and the rest of the people that persist that it isnt necessary are wrong.
                      So, since 2" works for the buildings we cover (and yes, we do have fires in them) we are wrong for not useing 2 1/2".

                      I dont get that.
                      Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

                      IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

                      "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
                      RUSH-Tom Sawyer

                      Success is when skill meets opportunity
                      Failure is when fantasy meets reality

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not that I necessarly like what we do but here it is. We use 200' of 1 3/4'' with a fog nozzle which is all held together with backboard straps. In a separate bag we carry about 6' of 3'' hose to hook to the standpipe, a gated wye, spanner wrenches and a few little odds and ends. Unfortionately one person normally carries all of this. We have to use 200' of hose to reach all the rooms, no matter what stairwell you come from. We also get away with using 1 3/4'' because at this time our tallest building is only 4 stories. If it were my choice or if I had to recommend a set up, I would say go with 2'' or 2 1/2'' with a smoothbore. Erick being that you all ride 4 to an eng and who knows how many when you all get your tower in, you do have the luxury of breaking it down into 2 straps or rolls like a few other people mentioned earlier.
                        Real men wear kilts. www.forourfallen.org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We currently use a "high-rise pack" setup w/ 100' of lightwt 1.75 hose w/ a low-press break aprt combo nozzle, 1 - 2.5 & 1.75" water thief, 1-6' section of 2.5", and a tool bag w/ pipe wrench, spanners, adapters, door chocks and duct tape for marking doors.

                          The idea being that the first two co's on-scene will make up the attack team and combine their hose .

                          They (the powers that be) are considering going to the 2.5" roll-up style w/ a separate tool bag so all components can be carried up by the entire crew . The roll-ups will be in a strap w/ handle contraption.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DrParasite
                            No, I'm not saying one group is right while the other is wrong. Don't try to put me in the middle of an arguement, I can do that all on my own.

                            all I am saying is that different groups do things differently. I'll let thsoe who have more experience with highrise fires duke it out.
                            Gotcha. So you basically lit the fuse and ran away......and won't share your input.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dave1983
                              So, since 2" works for the buildings we cover (and yes, we do have fires in them) we are wrong for not useing 2 1/2".

                              I dont get that.
                              If you feel it works, then who am I to question you... I guess. I will, however, suggest your nozzle choice is wrong. Unless it is a breakapart type. You may have a low pressure nozzle, but if you have no way of opening it up to get debris out of it, then you are setting up to be in a bad position. Our inspectors routinely find knockouts and other debris on piping when doing flow tests...stuff that can easily make its way into a nozzle.

                              2" to me, is a compromise. I would use it, but not if I had the choice otherwise.
                              Last edited by MG3610; 02-19-2006, 10:15 AM.

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