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Telesqurt First Out?

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  • Telesqurt First Out?

    My department has ordered a new Pierce 75' telesqurt, 750gal water tank, and I believe it will be a 1500GPM pump (not positive though as I am not on the purchasing committee). There will probably be one or two 200' 1 3/4" preconnects and one 200' 2 1/2" preconnect. I tried to research this topic but couldn't find any discussions regarding ladders as a first out piece.

    Discussions have been started around the firehouse whether or not this apparatus should become our first out piece for any type of fire incident, with the exception of brush fires. Our fire department does not currently have any ladder apparatus and never has. I know about ladder operations just from talking strategy and tactics at different courses I've attended over the years however, I have no personal experience with them and certainly do not have advanced training with them. I feel a good portion of the guys that have an opinion on the matter do not have much of a base to go off of and little or no experience in this area. For the typical bread-n-butter fire I don't see a problem with having the ladder the first apparatus out the door, however, for the bigger fires I see this as possibly being a problem, specifically with ladder placement and stretching a line off the truck, basically committing it to that exact spot throughout the remainder of the incident. This is an issue to me because we do not always have an officer up front, or an officer that knows what they are doing! Unless a chief is on scene to direct the placement of the truck, it might get put in the wrong spot. As stated, we've never had a ladder and I don't have any experience in this area so I am looking for some input from everyone regarding this topic so I can bring some different ideas and concepts to the discussion table from people who know more about the topic to help us in making a decision. Below is a brief description of my department and its primary response area so you know what I am dealing with.

    Department Apparatus / Personnel
    Volunteer, we'll get anywhere from 15-30 responding to a working fire.
    Typical staffing is normally driver, officer, and 2-3 FFs. Sometimes greater, sometimes less.

    Additional apparatus besides the telesqurt on order is:
    -1500 gallon 1500 GPM rescue pumper w/ two 200' 1 3/4" preconnect crosslays and one preconnect 200' 2 1/2" crosslay. Deck gun and your normal typical discharges on the side. We use 5" LDH for water supply. (Current First Out Truck

    - 3000 gallon 1500GPM pumper tanker w/ two 200' 1 3/4" preconnect crosslays and one preconnect 200' 2 1/2" crosslay. Deck gun and your normal typical discharges on the side.

    - 250 gallon mini-pumper w/ CAFS available on two 200' 1 3/4" preconnects.

    On a day time structure fire response we will get automatic aid from two surrounding departments typically bringing a 100' ladder, 150' tower, two 2500 gallon tankers, rescue truck. All apparatus will have approximately 4 FFs, not including driver. These are also volunteer departments so not all apparatus will arrive at the same time.

    Primary Coverage Area
    Approximately 20 square miles w/ approximately 6,000 year round residents. Area is SFDs and commerical buildings, including several strip malls.

    This is a suburban area and there is a few areas that have long driveways with trees that create trouble for us. This is why we have the mini-pumper.

    Part of the area is covered by hydrants, the other part we rely on water shuttles.

    Thanks for the help!

  • #2
    For a basic structure fire, you get a 100' and/or a 150'? We run a 75' quint first out, but thats the only truck for 10 miles. Our sog has always been position as a truck, we can extend the lines if we need to. Look at your area. We figured an average setback, 2 stories, and back to the front would need about 150'. We standardized our crosslays at 200' to be sure. If you're concerned with your lines being short, reevaluate their length or provide deadloads to extend them. You can add more hose, you can't add more ladder.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, we get automatic aid from two other departments. One department has a 100' ladder and the other has a 150' tower ladder. Both trucks are the second out on a response to our area. First they send a tanker, then they send their truck.

      I am not too concerned with the legnth of the preconnects or coming up short, as you stated, you can always add more hose. My main concern is our larger commercial buildings and apparatus positioning. I think it will be too difficult and/or impossible to reposition the truck if you are stretching lines off of it; and I feel not positioning the truck correctly leaves too much of a risk of making the stick useless in the entire operation, which could be a big loss, especially in a larger commercial building where it could make a difference.

      Comment


      • #4
        We have a Pierce 75 HD ladder with a 1500 gpm/500 tank. Its normal assignment is as a truck company. However, there is an area around its station that it is first in. When this happens, it acts as an engine company but its placement is the same as when its a truck. That is right in front of the structure. Normaly, our first in engine pulls past to allow the truck access to the front. But even though the truck may function as an engine, we still want it in front.

        I would use it as your first out as you have lots more options with an aerial.

        Enjoy your new rig. We love ours. Its our second Pierce 75 and 3rd ladder total.
        Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

        IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

        "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
        RUSH-Tom Sawyer

        Success is when skill meets opportunity
        Failure is when fantasy meets reality

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SeavilleFire
          Our fire department does not currently have any ladder apparatus and never has.

          And when your new apparatus comes in you still won't have a truck.
          RK
          cell #901-494-9437

          Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

          "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


          Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MemphisE34a
            And when your new apparatus comes in you still won't have a truck.
            Oh boy...here we go again.
            Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

            IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

            "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
            RUSH-Tom Sawyer

            Success is when skill meets opportunity
            Failure is when fantasy meets reality

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SeavilleFire
              Yes, we get automatic aid from two other departments. One department has a 100' ladder and the other has a 150' tower ladder. Both trucks are the second out on a response to our area. First they send a tanker, then they send their truck.

              I am not too concerned with the legnth of the preconnects or coming up short, as you stated, you can always add more hose. My main concern is our larger commercial buildings and apparatus positioning. I think it will be too difficult and/or impossible to reposition the truck if you are stretching lines off of it; and I feel not positioning the truck correctly leaves too much of a risk of making the stick useless in the entire operation, which could be a big loss, especially in a larger commercial building where it could make a difference.
              if you get auto aid form 2 departments that have ladders .........why would you want to buy one ?.,..........and I agree ...........it is still not a "truck" ....
              IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
              Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
              ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
              RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
              LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
              I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
              "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
              http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dave1983
                Oh boy...here we go again.
                What?????? =)
                RK
                cell #901-494-9437

                Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

                "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


                Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

                Comment


                • #9
                  We run a 95' platform from our central station. It does it's share of the work (runs over half of the calls we have). Each sub-station is equipped with an engine. Other than the wear and tear it has to overcome from chasing the ambulance we have experienced very little problems.

                  As far as the placement issue that you are concerned about that will come with time and training. Once the personnel understand that it is easier to add more hose than it is to add more ladder they will begin to complete a better size-up.
                  K-9 hunt, the ultimate challange.
                  EVERYONE GOES HOME
                  IACOJ

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MemphisE34a
                    What?????? =)
                    Just reffering to the old "quints are not real trucks" debate that pops up here once in a while.
                    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

                    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

                    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
                    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

                    Success is when skill meets opportunity
                    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dave1983
                      Just reffering to the old "quints are not real trucks" debate that pops up here once in a while.
                      Dave,

                      I am not at all saying a quint is not a true ladder, I am saying a telesqurt is not a real ladder - because its not.
                      RK
                      cell #901-494-9437

                      Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

                      "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


                      Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't think anything below 100' is a real truck. Just a junior aerial
                        "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

                        Safety is no accident.

                        Comment

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