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  • Triple Layer Load Preconnect

    Has anyone out there put the "Triple Layer Load" into service on their pre-connects. My Department has tried it and some of us (myself included) have found it to be a great hoselay. We sometimes have a manpower problem and found it to work well with limited manpower. Unfortunately the new chief is not a believer and has recently ordered all preconnects repacked to a flat load.

    Does anyone have any input on this hose lay ? good or bad............

  • #2
    We switched to the triple layer load a few years ago with great success. Just make sure that the loop under the nozzle is clearly visible and accessible - anything less will ensure that somebody pulls it wrong (i.e. pulling nozzle only).

    In my opinion, the triple layer load is the best textbook hose load. I think that the ultimate load for a crosslay/rear preconnect would be a combination between the minute man and the triple layer, but it would be a pain to ensure that people always packed it right.

    That having been said, we're switching to donut rolled preconnect load on our new engine, which I believe is superior to any bed-load.

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    • #3
      The 1.75" and 2" crosslays on our engine are minuteman loads, but the front 1.75" trash line and the rear 2.5" line are both packed as triple-loads. Also, all the preconnected forestry lines on our brush are packed as triple loads. We really like triple-loads for any line where carrying the hose somewhere in a compact way isn't an issue.

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      • #4
        We use the triple layer load on all our 1 3/4" crosslays. It's nice because you can have all the hose off the engine after pulling only 1/3 of the hose length. If you flat layed a 200' hose and only had one person to pull it they would have to go 200'...that would be a pain in an area like mine where most of our fires are suburban house fires that are 50' from the street. We'd have to pull to the back yard and come back around to get through the front door if it was flat loaded.

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        • #5
          Hello All,

          I have tested the triple layer load and actually just pulled one this weekend while instructing at a fire school in Monroe, Wisconsin.

          I like the idea that the bed is cleared in 1/3 the hose length. That is definately a nice feature. It works well if you have a lot of room and limited manpower.

          There is a couple of drawbacks that I have found though. The first is the inability to make any turns before the ENTIRE bed is cleared of the hose. This means that for a 200' preconnect you have to walk an entire 66 feet to clear the bed before any turns can be made. From what I have experienced, if you make a turn before the entire bed is completely cleared then you have quite a mess to flake out.

          This is fine if you have that room, but many times we (the fire service) are not given the luxury of having this room to deploy lines without making turns. If you keep that in mind, it's a great load. Like all loads, it has limitations.

          Have a good one!
          Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

          Nate DeMarse
          Co-Owner, Brotherhood Instructors, LLC.
          http://brotherhoodinstructors.com
          Facebook Users: Join us here
          -------------------------------
          GET IN THE JOB, BE A STUDENT OF THE JOB!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by NDeMarse
            There is a couple of drawbacks that I have found though. The first is the inability to make any turns before the ENTIRE bed is cleared of the hose. This means that for a 200' preconnect you have to walk an entire 66 feet to clear the bed before any turns can be made. From what I have experienced, if you make a turn before the entire bed is completely cleared then you have quite a mess to flake out.
            We've used the triple lay for years now, tried a few others but always come back to the triple. But as NDeMarse pointed out, you have to have the bed cleared. Last week we pulled to a well off MVC, which was down off the road a good ways. We normally would pull a 1.5" 100' line off a little small hoselay on the side of the engine. (Built it myself ) But when I saw the distance that the vehicle had traveled and the size of the fire (and unknown if there were more occupants) I chose an 1 3/4 structure line off the crosslay. Since we were on the side of the road and it was very steep from the roadway, we had a very hard time getting the line flaked off properly. First time I've ever had a problem though.


            We switched to the triple layer load a few years ago with great success. Just make sure that the loop under the nozzle is clearly visible and accessible - anything less will ensure that somebody pulls it wrong (i.e. pulling nozzle only).
            We just pull that extra little part of the hose through the valve handle on the nozzle, just about eliminates that problem.
            Chief
            Wren Volunteer Fire Department
            IACOJ
            Southern Division

            http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

            In Memory of:
            FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
            1946-2005
            "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

            Thanks, LeuitEFDems

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            • #7
              I'm do some teaching of Fire Fighter I classes and am familiar with most of the pre-connects loads. The triple load does clear the hose bed quickly but has some inherent problems. After the bed is clear, the firefighter has to drag 2/3's of the load around things. In rural America with lots of space, this is no problem, but in urban settings this isn't so convienent. Also, the nozzle firefighter does not carry any hose with them, so they may not know how much hose they have left before entering a hazard aread. When you use the minuteman load or any other load where you carry the first section of hose, you know when you're out of hose before having to enter someplace on fire. With the triple load, a lot of charged hose can be behind you instead of close to the point of entry. Most loads, with practice, work OK.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NDeMarse
                There is a couple of drawbacks that I have found though. The first is the inability to make any turns before the ENTIRE bed is cleared of the hose. This means that for a 200' preconnect you have to walk an entire 66 feet to clear the bed before any turns can be made. From what I have experienced, if you make a turn before the entire bed is completely cleared then you have quite a mess to flake out.
                I don't quite understand. We use them and there are two ways to get around this problem. One is you have a second man (maybe the engineer) stand where the hose is coming down and needs to bend around the corner, and he will pull it out of the bed (3 at the same time) and feed it to the man with the nozzle. The second is the man with the nozzle can suck it up and just PULL against friction. Being a one man engine company most of the time I find myself in that situation now and again. It helps if the hose bed has rollers but it is not essential.

                Birken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bobsnyder
                  We really like triple-loads for any line where carrying the hose somewhere in a compact way isn't an issue.
                  This has been my observation of the main limitations of the triple-layer load. I should qualify that by stating that we generally have plenty of space to clear the hose bed.

                  I like the fact that, when pulled properly, you have only two potential kinks in the line. Also, if your hose beds have side rollers, you can pull very nearly parallel to the engine as well to clear the bed.
                  ullrichk
                  a.k.a.
                  perfesser

                  a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i think i can... i think i can.... alright what the hell here goes....

                    How do you load thes triple layer load? Perhaps we refer to it as something else, but based on some of the comments regarding it I am interested in confirming and trying it out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      FFtrainer, Get a hold of the IFSTA Essentials for Firefighters and you will find step by step pictues on how to load the triple layer. It works! I also am a real fan of the minute man load.
                      Never trust a smiling dog.
                      The uniform you're given is free, but it comes with a history. Do the right thing when you're in it.
                      PTB, EGH, FTM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm definitely going to do that tonight... i think we must just refer to it as something else since it appears to be rather common around these forums!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FFTrainer
                          i think i can... i think i can.... alright what the hell here goes....

                          How do you load thes triple layer load? Perhaps we refer to it as something else, but based on some of the comments regarding it I am interested in confirming and trying it out.
                          The Cliff's Notes version of loading the Triple Layer Load (AKA the Baker Lay in parts of Tennessee).

                          For 150' line - Start at the engine and lay out a 50' section. Attach the next section and go back to the engine laying directly on top of the first hose. Connect the third section and lay on the two sections leading away from the engine. Connect your nozzle of choice.

                          If you lay all three hoses out at once (unroll two away from the engine, one towards) it is possible to wind up with a 50' line and a 100' loop so watch what you're doing and everything will work out (this aint rocket science!). Load all three layers back and forth in your hose bed.

                          When you pull the line, you MUST grab the nozzle and the first loop (the one that was "under" the nozzle when you set everything up. Some people stuff the loop in the nozzle bale for quick ID, but an overzealous pump operator can wedge it tight if they charge the line prematurely.

                          If you need longer preconnects, just go out about 1/3 of the distance using however many sections are required, back to the engine, and out again. If your estimated 1/3 is off, two firefighters can work the folds until everything works out in thirds.

                          Did I miss anything?
                          ullrichk
                          a.k.a.
                          perfesser

                          a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BirkenVogt
                            I don't quite understand. We use them and there are two ways to get around this problem. One is you have a second man (maybe the engineer) stand where the hose is coming down and needs to bend around the corner, and he will pull it out of the bed (3 at the same time) and feed it to the man with the nozzle. The second is the man with the nozzle can suck it up and just PULL against friction. Being a one man engine company most of the time I find myself in that situation now and again. It helps if the hose bed has rollers but it is not essential.

                            Birken
                            Suck it up and pull against friction huh? So you've never gotten any hose (even a small garden type hose) caught under a tire of a car. Yeah, I'm sure you just sucked it up and pulled through it. Getting the hose caught as you drag it behind you (as with the triple layer load) is the biggest drawback to that load.

                            We have a mixture of triple layer loads and minute mans (on different stations' apparatus). Each load has it's merits and place. If the layout is simple and there are no obsticles then the triple layer line is a good choice. But if you have to go around obsticles or you need to advance a distance inside the structure or up a set of stairs before the line is charged then the minuteman is the way to go because you're able to deploy your shoulder load as you advance.
                            I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

                            One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
                            "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
                            -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Triple flat load, aka Tennessee Flat Load

                              Originally posted by tcd0415
                              Has anyone out there put the "Triple Layer Load" into service on their pre-connects. My Department has tried it and some of us (myself included) have found it to be a great hoselay. We sometimes have a manpower problem and found it to work well with limited manpower. Unfortunately the new chief is not a believer and has recently ordered all preconnects repacked to a flat load.

                              Does anyone have any input on this hose lay ? good or bad............
                              Hey man I've been using this load for years and it's the only load in my opinion. You need very little room to flake it out and you don't get the spaghetti effect if pulled right. There's no need to hook your arm through the loops and drag the load off the truck into a huge pile and you don't need 200 ft. to pull the load off straight. tell your Chief to give it a try. Don't be afraid of change Chief

                              Comment

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