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1 1/2 hose and flow question...

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  • #61
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

    It seems that my comment about clear cut rules of engagement "should" have solved he issue you mention in your post. Add to that immediate and harsh discipline if a violation occurs and it seems that should end the problem.

    But perhaps not, we all know firefighters that are rpoud rule stretchers and breakers.
    The rules of engagement were clear to ALMOST all apparently.

    What makes it worse is that he occupancy involved actually called for 2 1/2 hose.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by captnjak View Post

      Well said.

      We no longer have booster reels. Booster line was stretched for a structural fire and a firefighter was almost killed. To avoid a repeat they were removed from specs. We now have a 1 3/4 pre-connect at front bumper to do what the booster line used to do.
      We call tank water "booster water". Officer at above fire called for "booster water" because he wanted fast water from tank for a quick knockdown. Firefighter misunderstood and stretched booster line. It wasn't up to the task and the fire did what the officer had feared it would do, which is rapidly grow larger. Instead of quick knockdown he got no knockdown.
      The real answer would have been to stop calling water from the tank booster water and start calling it tank water.
      or called it a red line
      ?

      Comment


      • #63
        Or that.

        We don't have "tankers" so there would not be a conflict in calling it tank water.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by captnjak View Post
          Or that.

          We don't have "tankers" so there would not be a conflict in calling it tank water.
          regional terms are interesting - that might make a good thread
          ?

          Comment


          • #65
            Tenders haul water, tankers drop it from the sky, NIMS identifiers. The water tank is called either tank water or booster tank water. Depending on the age of the firefighter.
            Crazy, but that's how it goes
            Millions of people living as foes
            Maybe it's not too late
            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
              Tenders haul water, tankers drop it from the sky, NIMS identifiers. The water tank is called either tank water or booster tank water. Depending on the age of the firefighter.
              Does an airborne tender count as a tanker then? The way some drive it's a possibility...
              Get the first line into operation.

              Comment


              • #67
                when I get west of Oklahoma I do my best to call them tenders (when in Rome etc) ---but as far as the old tale of the IC calling for trucks to haul water and calling them tankers -and next thing you know air tankers are overhead --- that's just a tale.We are pretty specific when ordering resources
                ?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Everyone who has been on here for a while knows I am a hardcore fan of 2 inch hose as the ultimate fire attack hose. So this may come as a surprise to some of you that I can see a place for 1 1/2 inch attack lines, with these guidelines, with a 7/8 inch smooth bore or a combination nozzle capable of at lest 150 gpm with whatever pressure makes you happy. This could be a car fire line or with a good size-up a quick line to go interior with on one or 2 rooms of fire. Yes, the 2 inch line can do that, and we move it with 2 people all the time, but I am beginning to soften on the idea of at least one smaller line for certain calls.
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                    Everyone who has been on here for a while knows I am a hardcore fan of 2 inch hose as the ultimate fire attack hose. So this may come as a surprise to some of you that I can see a place for 1 1/2 inch attack lines, with these guidelines, with a 7/8 inch smooth bore or a combination nozzle capable of at lest 150 gpm with whatever pressure makes you happy. This could be a car fire line or with a good size-up a quick line to go interior with on one or 2 rooms of fire. Yes, the 2 inch line can do that, and we move it with 2 people all the time, but I am beginning to soften on the idea of at least one smaller line for certain calls.
                    and the more tools in the tool box --the better --- as long as you have skilled craftsman knowing whixh tool to grab.
                    ?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post

                      and the more tools in the tool box --the better --- as long as you have skilled craftsman knowing whixh tool to grab.
                      While I agree, we seem to have decided that it's best to change everything rather than properly train and then hold personnel accountable. IE: Integrated PASS, Red seatbelts, seatbelt sensors, compartment alarms, removing booster lines, required hosebed covers, etc. How many other FD's put ridiculous rules and forms in place to "ensure" personnel do there job, rather than hold a few individuals accountable?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post

                        While I agree, we seem to have decided that it's best to change everything rather than properly train and then hold personnel accountable. IE: Integrated PASS, Red seatbelts, seatbelt sensors, compartment alarms, removing booster lines, required hosebed covers, etc. How many other FD's put ridiculous rules and forms in place to "ensure" personnel do there job, rather than hold a few individuals accountable?
                        which brings us back to the red (booster) line -to not spec something as useful as a red line because of a lack of training or knowledge --- is deff throwing the baby out with the bath water.
                        ?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post

                          which brings us back to the red (booster) line -to not spec something as useful as a red line because of a lack of training or knowledge --- is deff throwing the baby out with the bath water.
                          The problem is simply that we can train our firefighters and make rules, and guidelines, and set policies and procedures all day, BUT, and it is a HUGE BUT, if we fail to enforce those policies and follow up with discipline they all are relegated to the dump heap of meaninglessness.
                          Crazy, but that's how it goes
                          Millions of people living as foes
                          Maybe it's not too late
                          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                            Why has my opinion changed on booster reels? Here's a few reasons: 1) Having to pull a crosslay for a grass fire. Yeah, I know some carry rolls of 1 inch forestry hose. But it is clearly faster to pull a booster line and then roll it back up when you are done, than it is to roll, unroll, wash and then dry forestry hose. 2) For the driver to protect the rig with. You know sometimes you have to cool off the rig, or fight the grass fire as it heads fir the rig. 3) Equipment washdown, and firefighter gross decon after a fire. 4) Nuisance fires like trash cans, porta potties lit off, and more. They seldom require much water and with a booster line the engine is back in service much quicker.

                            My opinion of NEVER, EVER, NEVER as an attack line for a structure fire or vehicle fire has not changed.
                            I love booster lines simply for the convenience factor. cleanup on the hose is much easier, especially for a brush fire.

                            I used to hear that back in the day structure fires were fought with the "red snake." Now it's unheard of. it's it's anything more than a nuisance fire (porta potties burn more often than you would believe) stretch an inch and a half or bigger. but for cleaning up, rinsing off gear, i'll take the booster line any day.
                            If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

                            FF/EMT/DBP

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

                              You know, I used to be in that camp. The one tht said remove the booster line then the temptation isn't there. Now I have gone back the other way and believe that just like pistol grips are not the problem, neither are booster lines. Both being a problem are the result of improper training, poor follow up and especially with the booster line failure to have clear cut rules of engagement.

                              Why has my opinion changed on booster reels? Here's a few reasons: 1) Having to pull a crosslay for a grass fire. Yeah, I know some carry rolls of 1 inch forestry hose. But it is clearly faster to pull a booster line and then roll it back up when you are done, than it is to roll, unroll, wash and then dry forestry hose. 2) For the driver to protect the rig with. You know sometimes you have to cool off the rig, or fight the grass fire as it heads fir the rig. 3) Equipment washdown, and firefighter gross decon after a fire. 4) Nuisance fires like trash cans, porta potties lit off, and more. They seldom require much water and with a booster line the engine is back in service much quicker.

                              My opinion of NEVER, EVER, NEVER as an attack line for a structure fire or vehicle fire has not changed.
                              The other reason I'm not a fan of booster lines (other than grass and wildland fire usage) is that those reels are really expensive, and it's quite easy and cheap to have some rubber 1 1/2" line in a bumper well. Most dept's I know of usually carry 100', but 200' is doable too.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                                Tenders haul water, tankers drop it from the sky, NIMS identifiers. The water tank is called either tank water or booster tank water. Depending on the age of the firefighter.
                                We're not EVER going to have any airborne apparatus other than a medical transport helicopter, so it will NEVER change from tanker to tender here. Despite what some Poindexter sitting behind a desk says.

                                Comment

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