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1 1/2 hose and flow question...

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  • 1 1/2 hose and flow question...

    G'day all,

    So, poking around the various pumpers at our 3 stations, we use various different nozzles in terms of flows, pressures, automatics, selectable gallonage, fixed gallonage and from the 3 big manufacturers. Most seem to be around the 125gpm at 100psi, which I suppose would be the standard if one is using 1.5" hose, which my department is. We're pretty set on that hose size for the foreseeable future.

    A pair of nozzles I found kind of interesting. They were purchased surplus from a neighbouring city department, and they are previous generation(ie, ball valve, not slide valve) TFT Metros; 150gpm at 50 psi.

    My question is, has anyone flowed that much water(150gpm) through an inch and a half hose on a consistent basis? It seems to me it might be possible with a tip pressure that low given the friction loss, although like anything else it would have to be tested on using the apparatus and hose we use, and that would be the absolute limit of that hose size...

    Thoughts? This more of a personal info thing; not trying to make a change on how we do things.
    Last edited by MikeG344; 01-10-2018, 12:30 PM. Reason: Noticed a spelling mistake...
    Two departments, twice the fun...

  • #2
    Not only possible but entirely practical too.

    Using old school friction loss formulas C(QXQ)L, 24(1.5x1.5)1 = 54 psi friction loss per 100 feet, so potentially you could go to just under 400 feet and flow 150 gpm with a 50 psi nozzle. Reality is with today's better hose you could go all of 400 feet easy.

    If you kept your 1 1/2 preconnects to 200 feet you could potentially flow more.

    Most often the flow restrictor on 1 1/2 inch lines is the nozzle and the old rule of thumb that you shouldn't flow more than 125. Nonsense, it can and will flow more than that.

    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #3
      Our preconnects are 200 feet, however it's nice to be able to have the flexibility to go a bit longer if need be...

      I wonder where the '125gpm max' came from...?
      Two departments, twice the fun...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MikeG344 View Post
        Our preconnects are 200 feet, however it's nice to be able to have the flexibility to go a bit longer if need be...

        I wonder where the '125gpm max' came from...?
        cause we used those 125 turbojets forever
        ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Those things are everywhere. There is a chrome over brass on one of our pumpers; I'd like to know how old it is.
          Last edited by MikeG344; 01-09-2018, 05:44 PM.
          Two departments, twice the fun...

          Comment


          • #6
            Last acquired structure burn we did with another dept we used 1.5 lines with I think 7/8 smoothbores. Don't know what PDP was but we were getting 180 gpm 50. It was actually a nice attack line
            Get the first line into operation.

            Comment


            • #7
              You know really my only complaint with the turbo jets is/was.... Those piece of crap plastic Bale handles that they use. Elkhart always used a good metal handle
              Get the first line into operation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, I think I'll have a conversation with my officer and see if the next time we're pumping water for training if we can give one of those Metros a try. They don't get much, if any, use compared to the other nozzles.

                Two departments, twice the fun...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
                  Last acquired structure burn we did with another dept we used 1.5 lines with I think 7/8 smoothbores. Don't know what PDP was but we were getting 180 gpm 50. It was actually a nice attack line
                  I wanted to give a SB a try during training, but apparently those are frowned upon where I am.
                  Two departments, twice the fun...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MikeG344 View Post

                    I wanted to give a SB a try during training, but apparently those are frowned upon where I am.
                    keep trying -try and do a side by side comparison
                    ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
                      Last acquired structure burn we did with another dept we used 1.5 lines with I think 7/8 smoothbores. Don't know what PDP was but we were getting 180 gpm 50. It was actually a nice attack line
                      7/8 nozzle at 50 psi is 160 gpm, 15/16 at 50 psi is 180 gpm.
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FyredUp and I pm'd about this subject a while back. Both my depts are hell bent on 1.5" 100 gpm at 100 psi. I've tried unsuccessfully to move them toward the 21st century, and we even have a donated TFT set up for 75 psi 150 gpm. All I asked them for was one more 75 psi nozzle on one engine so that our two pre-connects could combine for 300 gpm, in order to show what a difference it can make. I don't dare discuss smooth bores.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post

                          keep trying -try and do a side by side comparison
                          I plan on it. Our previous Chief bought POK smooth bores, however the 1.5 shutoffs came with an odd pair of stacked tips; 1/2" and 1 1/4". The 1 1/4" is large for a 1.5 hose. The 2.5 shutoffs have 1 13/16" tips on them. There is a single 1/2" and 15/16" stacked tip in the department. If the line is kept to 200 feet on the 1.5 hose, I could try the 15/16 tip.

                          I'll get some resistance though. The smoothbores are met with derision when(if) they come out.
                          Two departments, twice the fun...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wouldn't you know...

                            http://www.firehouse.com/blog/109152...-1-2-inch-hose
                            Two departments, twice the fun...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tbzep View Post
                              FyredUp and I pm'd about this subject a while back. Both my depts are hell bent on 1.5" 100 gpm at 100 psi. I've tried unsuccessfully to move them toward the 21st century, and we even have a donated TFT set up for 75 psi 150 gpm. All I asked them for was one more 75 psi nozzle on one engine so that our two pre-connects could combine for 300 gpm, in order to show what a difference it can make. I don't dare discuss smooth bores.
                              It's funny how we acknowledged that fires burn faster, and sometimes even hotter, due to the make up of so many items inside of homes and the way homes are constructed. We even acknowledge the fact that the black smoke of today is unignited fire. So WHY do we keep sending firefighters into these fires like it is 1955 and everything in the house is real wood, linens, wool, and minimal synthetics? 100 GPM is the MINIMUM standard set by NFPA for interior fire ops and that number hasn't changed in decades. WHY? My firm belief is 150 GPM should be the minimum, and 180 or 200 would be better. The old adage that more water available at the nozzle means more water damage is an excuse for poorly trained nozzle firefighters. If you need 60 gallons to put the fire out you do it quicker at 150 to 200 GPM than at 100 gpm. All you have to do is remember to shut the nozzle off when the fire darkens, let it clear, and then finish off the remaining fire. Add to that the added safety of having more flow if you run into something unexpected, like a guy tearing his motorcycle apart in his living room with a full gas tank.

                              Crazy, but that's how it goes
                              Millions of people living as foes
                              Maybe it's not too late
                              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                              Comment

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