Carmel Roundabout Hose Lay

[Fireeaterbob]

DAMN...I think I felt the Earth shift on its axis.

Are you in Wisconsin or Japan?? (Yes, a poor attempt at humor at the expense of people who are REALLY suffering)

[FyredUp]

Other than to agree to disagree...it does appear we do!

DAMN...I think I felt the Earth shift on its axis.

[MG3610]

Dude? Do we actually agree on something?

Other than to agree to disagree...it does appear we do!

[FiremanLyman]

So it is a preconnected Cleveland load? If you train with it and like it, then good for you.

We use the Cleveland load for a highrise pack, like it, can deploy it in a stairwell, plays out fine with good fire stream.

[FyredUp]

This is exactly why I am an avid OPPONENT of this lay. I'll say its a fad that will pass.

Dude? Do we actually agree on something?

[MG3610]

Okay, first of all if you like it, and it works for you, then all is good.

Here is why it causes me concern, and maybe my mind would change if I actually tried it, the fact that as you advance every time the loop tightens the hose kinks. If you only advance into the building as far as you need and at that point the loop is pulled tight and kinks, then what? It seems like you need an extra guy to ensure the hose doesn't kink as it is advanced.

This is exactly why I am an avid OPPONENT of this lay. I'll say its a fad that will pass.

[voyager9]

Would storing this as a doughnut roll that is adapted to fit the cross lay solve the potential kinking problem? We store our bumper line in two doughnut rolled sections. They unroll when charged or walked out without kinking. Good for simple stuff or car fires. I've never thought about trying it as a cross lay, though.

Our cross lays are in the triple pack. PITA to repack, but easy to pull. The post above was on the money with respect to off-axis or obstacles.. they can make it more challenging.

[BlitzfireSolo]

And I love the traditional flat lay, we are just are kind of going through a "lean transformation" if you will, so as one person is capable to be more productive.

I hear you there, but in my opinion ANY 200' pre-connect should be easily stretched by one person. For both minuteman and flat load (with loops in the proper places), I've never had a problem quickly stretching and flaking a 200' 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" by myself. Of course the donut load is even faster and easier, but that's not a bed load.

[Atlanta802]

I am curious though why you are seeking validation for an idea that you seem to have already planned to adopt.

I dont have the load already planned to adopt, and I am not seeking validation, just more opinions about the load and the pros and cons that the load may have. I do however plan on testing and training with the load tomorrow to see if it would be benificial to our department. And I love the traditional flat lay, we are just are kind of going through a "lean transformation" if you will, so as one person is capable to be more productive. We currently only have a roster of 23 personnel, so staffing is an issue at times, and remember we are volunteer, so you cant count on everyone being able to respond (On average 12 personnel show; but we do have an automatic mutual-aid for structure and natural cover fires in our district.). If this load does go into service I believe it will be only on one crosslay for the time being until we can determine its usefullness. Great discussion so far, keep the opinions coming, and thanks!

[BlitzfireSolo]

What my thoughts about this load was the time it saves to make entry over a traditional flat load; having to drag the load completely, assure that it will not kink when charged, charge the line, and then make entry. With the roundabout load you just pull it to the door and once you open it to a circle it can be charged and entry can be made. On Wednesday when we train with this load I think I will have a race to see which load can be advanced quickest through a maze and then flowing water on the other side. I will let you know the results, I may have to video it.

I can flake the shoulder load of our flat lay in about 4 seconds, so I really don't see much room for improvement there.

Also, avoid the triple layer; we used it for 8 years and couldn't wait to get rid of it. It works great in parking lots or wide open front yards directly in line with the bed, but not so much once you add obstacles, 90-degree turns, etc. Modified flat load or minuteman really beat all other bed loads when it comes to real-world performance.

[Fireeaterbob]

We've used it a couple of times on structural with great success. The city fire units use it more than we do. We keep one crosslay as a flat and the other as a round about. We have had no issues with the kinks so far.

Cons? We have one member who works odd hours and has not used our website training or attended the meetings on the round about and he has twice made a spagetti pile to beat all.....Can't win em all I guess.

[Golzy12]

We use a similar hose load for our 200 ft preconnects. We have the bottom 100ft of the load as a triple layer load and then the top 100ft are loaded as the coil load. We keep the coil load strapped together so it stays intact when you take it off your shoulder. It allows us to clear the entire hosebed in 33 ft. we have been using the load for around 2 years and for the most part it has been working well for us. We initially charger the preconnects @ 150 psi and then open the nozzle a couple times to get all of the kinks out of the pack, we then back the line down to proper operating pressure. We haven't had any problems with the coil pack kinking when we advance.

[FyredUp]

I thought about the kink issue as well, but our department will not advance into the interior of a structure unless their is a backup team assigned at the door (RIT & 2 in 2 out). And in that case I dont see the problem with the kinks. What my thoughts about this load was the time it saves to make entry over a traditional flat load; having to drag the load completely, assure that it will not kink when charged, charge the line, and then make entry. With the roundabout load you just pull it to the door and once you open it to a circle it can be charged and entry can be made. On Wednesday when we train with this load I think I will have a race to see which load can be advanced quickest through a maze and then flowing water on the other side. I will let you know the results, I may have to video it.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but how is the roundabout load anymore efficient in manpower over the flat load if you have to have an additional crew at the door to make sure it doesn't kink? Couldn't that additional crew be laying out the flatload so it doesn't kink as it is being charged?

On my career FD it is generally my job to pull the crosslay, flatloaded with the top 100 feet designed to be shouldered and carried to the entry point, and get it ready to make entry. I shoulder load the bundle, grab the loop of the remaining hose in the bed and move towards the entry point. I drop the bundle, grab the coupling at the 50 foot mark and stretch it back to make an "S" in the hose. Most of the time the pump operator is ready to charge the line when I am ready to enter.

Like I said previously, if this works for you fantastic. I am curious though why you are seeking validation for an idea that you seem to have already planned to adopt.

[volfireman034]

hmmmmm so afraid of change lol

[GTRider245]

try using the triple layer load. If you have set backs of 60 feet and are packing 200 feet crosslays you guys will be fine with this and don't have to worry about a hose roll kinking. JMO

Agreed. The Cleveland works great as a high rise pack as it won't kink on the landing of a stairwell. Not so sure I like the idea for a crosslay.