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Carmel Roundabout Hose Lay

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  • Carmel Roundabout Hose Lay

    Has anyone used this hose load on here? It is very similar to the Cleveland High-Rise bundles, except it is utilized in a crosslay, and even on single floor dwellings. I am thinking about trying it out on our trucks. I drove around town and noticed that from the curb to the door of a structure was on average 60 feet. So if I am going to try this load I am going to want 100' in the roundabout load connected to 100' in flat lay loaded beside the roundabout in the crosslay. I cant wait to try this on a call once we put it on the engine. I have already showed our department the benefits of the load, and how it is used from grass fires to multi story structures. My chief was impressed, and we are going to train with it on Wednesday. Let me know what you think, and if our small department (that runs about 150 calls a year approx. 50 structures 75 MVA's and 75 natural cover fires) would benefit from placing this hose load in service.

    Here is a link to a video demonstrating the hose load. Made by Carmel Fire Dept 44B. Check it out!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTQTgqJTK5Q
    Last edited by Atlanta802; 04-04-2011, 04:15 PM. Reason: fixing terminology

  • #2
    Okay, first of all if you like it, and it works for you, then all is good.

    Here is why it causes me concern, and maybe my mind would change if I actually tried it, the fact that as you advance every time the loop tightens the hose kinks. If you only advance into the building as far as you need and at that point the loop is pulled tight and kinks, then what? It seems like you need an extra guy to ensure the hose doesn't kink as it is advanced.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
      Here is why it causes me concern, and maybe my mind would change if I actually tried it, the fact that as you advance every time the loop tightens the hose kinks. If you only advance into the building as far as you need and at that point the loop is pulled tight and kinks, then what? It seems like you need an extra guy to ensure the hose doesn't kink as it is advanced.
      Ditto. Cool load - maybe for wildland fires or something - but just seems like asking for some trouble when introduced into the structural setting. Like a lot of things, the worst part is you might not even realize this until the wrong time.

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      • #4
        Its an alright concept, although I still don't get the hate for the simple and versatile flat load. At least with this the "roundabout" part is just a length or two of working end, so you can still break it easily past that.

        I have to echo the concern about it kinking every time you advance several feet.

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        • #5
          try using the triple layer load. If you have set backs of 60 feet and are packing 200 feet crosslays you guys will be fine with this and don't have to worry about a hose roll kinking. JMO

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          • #6
            I thought about the kink issue as well, but our department will not advance into the interior of a structure unless their is a backup team assigned at the door (RIT & 2 in 2 out). And in that case I dont see the problem with the kinks. What my thoughts about this load was the time it saves to make entry over a traditional flat load; having to drag the load completely, assure that it will not kink when charged, charge the line, and then make entry. With the roundabout load you just pull it to the door and once you open it to a circle it can be charged and entry can be made. On Wednesday when we train with this load I think I will have a race to see which load can be advanced quickest through a maze and then flowing water on the other side. I will let you know the results, I may have to video it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TRUCK61 View Post
              try using the triple layer load. If you have set backs of 60 feet and are packing 200 feet crosslays you guys will be fine with this and don't have to worry about a hose roll kinking. JMO
              Agreed. The Cleveland works great as a high rise pack as it won't kink on the landing of a stairwell. Not so sure I like the idea for a crosslay.
              Career Firefighter
              Volunteer Captain

              -Professional in Either Role-

              Originally posted by Rescue101
              I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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              • #8
                hmmmmm so afraid of change lol

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Atlanta802 View Post
                  I thought about the kink issue as well, but our department will not advance into the interior of a structure unless their is a backup team assigned at the door (RIT & 2 in 2 out). And in that case I dont see the problem with the kinks. What my thoughts about this load was the time it saves to make entry over a traditional flat load; having to drag the load completely, assure that it will not kink when charged, charge the line, and then make entry. With the roundabout load you just pull it to the door and once you open it to a circle it can be charged and entry can be made. On Wednesday when we train with this load I think I will have a race to see which load can be advanced quickest through a maze and then flowing water on the other side. I will let you know the results, I may have to video it.
                  Just playing devil's advocate here, but how is the roundabout load anymore efficient in manpower over the flat load if you have to have an additional crew at the door to make sure it doesn't kink? Couldn't that additional crew be laying out the flatload so it doesn't kink as it is being charged?

                  On my career FD it is generally my job to pull the crosslay, flatloaded with the top 100 feet designed to be shouldered and carried to the entry point, and get it ready to make entry. I shoulder load the bundle, grab the loop of the remaining hose in the bed and move towards the entry point. I drop the bundle, grab the coupling at the 50 foot mark and stretch it back to make an "S" in the hose. Most of the time the pump operator is ready to charge the line when I am ready to enter.

                  Like I said previously, if this works for you fantastic. I am curious though why you are seeking validation for an idea that you seem to have already planned to adopt.
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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                  • #10
                    We use a similar hose load for our 200 ft preconnects. We have the bottom 100ft of the load as a triple layer load and then the top 100ft are loaded as the coil load. We keep the coil load strapped together so it stays intact when you take it off your shoulder. It allows us to clear the entire hosebed in 33 ft. we have been using the load for around 2 years and for the most part it has been working well for us. We initially charger the preconnects @ 150 psi and then open the nozzle a couple times to get all of the kinks out of the pack, we then back the line down to proper operating pressure. We haven't had any problems with the coil pack kinking when we advance.

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                    • #11
                      We've used it a couple of times on structural with great success. The city fire units use it more than we do. We keep one crosslay as a flat and the other as a round about. We have had no issues with the kinks so far.

                      Cons? We have one member who works odd hours and has not used our website training or attended the meetings on the round about and he has twice made a spagetti pile to beat all.....Can't win em all I guess.
                      A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Atlanta802 View Post
                        What my thoughts about this load was the time it saves to make entry over a traditional flat load; having to drag the load completely, assure that it will not kink when charged, charge the line, and then make entry. With the roundabout load you just pull it to the door and once you open it to a circle it can be charged and entry can be made. On Wednesday when we train with this load I think I will have a race to see which load can be advanced quickest through a maze and then flowing water on the other side. I will let you know the results, I may have to video it.
                        I can flake the shoulder load of our flat lay in about 4 seconds, so I really don't see much room for improvement there.

                        Also, avoid the triple layer; we used it for 8 years and couldn't wait to get rid of it. It works great in parking lots or wide open front yards directly in line with the bed, but not so much once you add obstacles, 90-degree turns, etc. Modified flat load or minuteman really beat all other bed loads when it comes to real-world performance.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                          I am curious though why you are seeking validation for an idea that you seem to have already planned to adopt.
                          I dont have the load already planned to adopt, and I am not seeking validation, just more opinions about the load and the pros and cons that the load may have. I do however plan on testing and training with the load tomorrow to see if it would be benificial to our department. And I love the traditional flat lay, we are just are kind of going through a "lean transformation" if you will, so as one person is capable to be more productive. We currently only have a roster of 23 personnel, so staffing is an issue at times, and remember we are volunteer, so you cant count on everyone being able to respond (On average 12 personnel show; but we do have an automatic mutual-aid for structure and natural cover fires in our district.). If this load does go into service I believe it will be only on one crosslay for the time being until we can determine its usefullness. Great discussion so far, keep the opinions coming, and thanks!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Atlanta802 View Post
                            And I love the traditional flat lay, we are just are kind of going through a "lean transformation" if you will, so as one person is capable to be more productive.
                            I hear you there, but in my opinion ANY 200' pre-connect should be easily stretched by one person. For both minuteman and flat load (with loops in the proper places), I've never had a problem quickly stretching and flaking a 200' 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" by myself. Of course the donut load is even faster and easier, but that's not a bed load.

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                            • #15
                              Would storing this as a doughnut roll that is adapted to fit the cross lay solve the potential kinking problem? We store our bumper line in two doughnut rolled sections. They unroll when charged or walked out without kinking. Good for simple stuff or car fires. I've never thought about trying it as a cross lay, though.

                              Our cross lays are in the triple pack. PITA to repack, but easy to pull. The post above was on the money with respect to off-axis or obstacles.. they can make it more challenging.
                              So you call this your free country
                              Tell me why it costs so much to live
                              -3dd

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