Water curtain/waterwall

[neiowa]

Anyone have research links for water curtain/water wall use for exposure protection? My understanding is that thinking is water curtains do not work for protecting exposures from radiant heat.

I have no experience with these but a local mutual aid partner is planning a training burn of a junk house and wants us to operate a waterwall (after they buy one) to protect the house next door (20').

I find such equipment in Elkhart and Pok catalogs in 1-1/2" or 2-1/2".

Links or experince (I tried seach no luck with is surprising)?

[nmfire]

I don't have experience to share since we're rural and there is no adjacent exposure issues. However I think you're right about it not doing jack for radiant heat. Water should be applied to the surface for cooling.

[SPFDRum]

neiowa, here is my experience with water curtains as we used them many times during live burn training for exposure protection;

-The water curtain needs to be directly spraying on the exposure. Placing it in between the burning structure and exposure does no good. The radiant head waves go through it like a window pane.
-It must be of sufficient size and capacity to continuously wet the entire face of the exposure facing the burning building. now this includes the roof if the flames are above the structure.
-the best one i have seen have been all homemade....go figure! LOL

[CKirk922]

I think you're right about it not doing jack for radiant heat. Water should be applied to the surface for cooling.

I worked a training burn about 5 years ago and we tried a curtain...BIG MISTAKE! It took a direct exposure line to keep the garage from melting to the ground some twenty feet from the house.

Well, they burned the barn twenty feet to the other side of the house after I left and melted the other side of the structure. Again, the curtain did not do a bit of good. It took a direct exposure line again to cool the structure.

[zzyyzx]

We have them on a couple engines. Like SP said, they are mostly useless unless you spray the exposure directly. Even at that point, it isn't as great as it sounds. We'll seldom use them unless we're trying to keep some siding from melting. If you're limited on manpower and can secure it once it's placed, I guess it's better than nothing if you don't have to worry about your psi or water supply.

[nameless]

water curtains will do nothing. water needs to be applied to the exposure to keep it cool.

[FiremanLyman]

Water is opaque, meaning light energy travels through it. Therefore radiant heat, the most common cause of fire exposure heat transfer, will travel through the water curtain. Save your water- putting out the fire is the best method of exposure protection or protect exposures by cooling the surface of the exposure.

[FyredUp]

Water is opaque, meaning light energy travels through it. Therefore radiant heat, the most common cause of fire exposure heat transfer, will travel through the water curtain. Save your water- putting out the fire is the best method of exposure protection or protect exposures by cooling the surface of the exposure.

Um, water is absolutely NOT opaque it is translucent. And that is exactly why radiated heat passes right through it. If it were opaque radiated heat would not pass through it and heat would be blocked and the surface temp of the water would rapidly rise and be a heat sink.

[neiowa]

... Save your water- putting out the fire is the best method of exposure protection or protect exposures by cooling the surface of the exposure.

Actually, as stated, in this instance the intent is to burn (controlled burn) the house/structure without damaging the adjoining home/exposure.

[kuh shise]

This past spring we conducted a live burn with a close exposure (milk house / spring house) 15 feet from the old farm house we were burning. Direct application of fog to the exposure. Didn't even blister the paint on the milkhouse. Only problems were the old brick chimneys that did not want to fall properly. Finally had to put the 1 1/8" solid stream in an off & on application to get them rocking, then catch and hold the stream on the top to push it into the foundation.

[FiremanLyman]

Um, water is absolutely NOT opaque it is translucent. And that is exactly why radiated heat passes right through it. If it were opaque radiated heat would not pass through it and heat would be blocked and the surface temp of the water would rapidly rise and be a heat sink.

You sir are correct, and really that is what I meant. Opaque? No idea why I came up with the antonym of the word I wanted. Brain in hibernate mode I suppose.

[PaladinKnight]

You sir are correct, and really that is what I meant. Opaque? No idea why I came up with the antonym of the word I wanted. Brain in hibernate mode I suppose.

Naw... it has been hot and your brain juice is just a bit dried out. happens to the best of us.


Direct water to the exposure.


Why waste time on trying to disprove physics?

[nameless]

Save your water- putting out the fire is the best method of exposure protection or protect exposures by cooling the surface of the exposure.

but we should remember that often the act of putting the fire out will push fire out the window creating or exacerbating exposure problems. Even with solid streams, the steam and smoke created will put force behind the fire and briefly worsen exposure problems.

[FiremanLyman]

but we should remember that often the act of putting the fire out will push fire out the window creating or exacerbating exposure problems. Even with solid streams, the steam and smoke created will put force behind the fire and briefly worsen exposure problems.

That's why the knuckle dragging truckies cut holes in roofs. (Well that, and so they can look inside and watch real heroes)

Never heard of this problem... but still a water curtain would do little.

[nameless]

That's why the knuckle dragging truckies cut holes in roofs. (Well that, and so they can look inside and watch real heroes)

It probably does, but if you don't have buildings built on top of each other you probably wouldn't notice.