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Response Protocol

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  • Response Protocol

    I am sure there is a 5 or 6 year old discussion of this somewhere. I am sure I will get flooded with personal opinions and likely start a big arguement.
    I would like written protocols for emergency response. I am trying to get a consensus on how many EMS services respond to rescue/trauma scenes and MVA's where extrication is not needed, without Fire Department responding also.
    I have run into several departments while doing training that don't work together, or that it is just not normal practice to respond both. The EMS will call for FD if the get there and decide they need them. Most of the time this causes a delay in the patient getting to the hospital. In many areas, FD does not respond to any MVA unless there is extrication. On rescues EMS agencies are calling Air Evac's and not calling FD for landing zones.
    I thought we had progressed to where this was the ways of the old days, but I am seeing it quite alot, mostly in rural areas, but with large County run EMS services in place.

    Please try and send me statistical info or written protocols I can use to educate.

  • #2
    In my community, the Sheriff and the Police Chief have ruled that they are in charge of any accident scene and EMS or Fire are not to be dispatched unless

    1) reporting party reports an active fire (then fire is to be dispatched)
    2) reporting party reports "injuries", then EMS can be dispatched
    3) officer or deputy on scene determines there is a need for ems or fire, then that person will request assistance.

    The police department has decided (after outside pressure) that oil, gasoline, or anti-freeze on the road is a hazmat incident. They will request the fire department respond in those cases. However, it is often after the car has been removed from the scene. They do not care for us "messing up" their accident scene.

    We are trying to change things, but it may take a new sheriff with a new attitude to make headway. Or something really bad happen, but we hope the new attitude comes first.


    • #3
      Funny you should ask this now...as currently outside my place of work, there is a 2 car MVA. 1 car TBoned the other and is now sitting on top of the fire hydrant they knocked over. EMS just arrived on scene to provide patient care. No FD notification because there is no need. Had the person been in need of extrication, the PD would not have been able to open the door of the vehicle and would have notified dispatch of that, which would have had the EMS agency roll their Extrication vehicle and the FD dispatched to assist with manpower and provide fire protection. We (PD/EMS/FD) work very well together here with a system that works for us.
      "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?


      • #4
        I'll see if I can hunt you down the official stats for Sumter FD, but for us FD responds to all MVAs. EMS and PD are also dispatched.

        If, upon arrival, it is determined that any of the above are not needed, they will be released or told to disregard and return to station. As a general rule of thumb though, even if there is no extrication required, FD units already on scene will stay to assist EMS.

        With so few ambulances in service to cover the county, FD (trained at a minimum in First Responder) will many times begin prepping the patient for transport before EMS arrives.
        Tom Warshaw
        Station 13 (Bethel)
        Sumter Fire Department

        "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

        September 11, 2001. We Must Never Forget.

        In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY

        All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the opinions of my department or any organization I may belong to.


        • #5
          MVA response

          The SOG for my county's dispatch center is that for ANY MVA with reported personal injury it will be a Law Enforcement/EMS/Fire response with Fire as initial IC. Once on scene, an evaluation is made and changes made as needed. Does this happen for every incident, unfourtunatly no, but those lapses are getting fewer and farther beween. It was felt that since we have a central dispatch for a small county, it was better to get every one started and if not needed you can be cancelled, which does happen on occasion.
          Since my department does not do EMS first response, we roll our heavy rescue and our first due engine. Our fire police have the option of getting our squad van if they want to, but most respond in their POV's.
          We have had this system inplace for a few years and it seems to be working okay. I know for my department, we have a good working realtionship with not only our own village police (most of which are FF's any way), but with the county sherrifs and state polce. Since there is only one transporting EMS agency in our end of the county, we have had joint training with them on several occasions. The only concern I have ever had on that side is with level of their PPE while working in the action zone, but that issue is being addressed by the upper levels of both departments with some good results starting to be seen.
          "Your spill is our thrill."


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