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  • WS removal as a seperate step?

    Do you remove the windshield...

    a. as a seperate step?

    b. in conjunction with the roof simultaneously?

    Why? Advantages/Disadvantages?

  • #2
    We typically remove the windshield with the roof.

    Sometimes we simply use the windshield as a hinge and roll the roof forward. Notching the A-posts, and connecting the notches with an axe (just weakening, not breaking through the glass) allows the roof to simply fold forward at the level of the dash.

    On the other hand, the above isn't always ideal or possible. If we feel like completely removing the roof, we simply cut A-post to A-post across the lower windshield. Some extra bites with Speedway Cutters, a Glasmaster, axe, or 'cip saw can go through the glass. I think the Glasmaster is your best bet - low cost, simple, safe, effective.

    I don't think it has to be a separate step. Maybe there's a benefit to doing so, but I can't think of one.
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
    Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
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    • #3
      We try and fold the rood towards the front or flap the roof at the windshield so as we don't have to do much work with it.

      Removing the windshield can really add to your on scene time and eat into the Golden Hour. We try to work around it.

      If we must remove the roof, we remove the windshield first, then the roof. We've tried to remove the windshield with the roof and it just seems so messy and unsafe.
      Luke

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      • #4
        I think it depends on the vehicle construction, the type and severity of the accident and how much time you have available.
        Older cars have a rubber mount and can be quite easy to remove. Sometimes the crash is so severe that the windscreen is almost out anyhow. It all depends on how the screen is mounted and what your choices are for extrication. I also like using the screen as a hinge, especially on newer vehicles with bonded screens. By doing this you are effectively removing the roof and screen together, and placing them on the front of the vehicle.
        We carry a set of panel beaters tools for removing any type of windscreen we come across, but the removal of a bonded screen is slow and messy. Also you need access to the inside of the screen and quite often to the engine bay below the bonnet line.
        The best bet is to get a heap of cars and try all the techniques and see which one you can do fast, quite, effectively and is easy on the team members.
        D. Camp

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        • #5
          It's always good to hear different ways of doing things.

          I was taught to do a roof flap to the rear with the 'shield removed. I don't care for this too much because it usually involves a high cut on the A post (leaves a real dangerous condition for the crew with the A left sticking up) and trying to get the roof to crease in front of the C post.

          Every time we train I've tried something different. Haven't tried a forward flap with the 'shield in. Just a question...is it possible that the 'shield could come loose from it's bottom seal while you're flapping the roof forward and kick back into the passenger compartment?
          _________DILLIGAF

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          • #6
            We always flap to the front or remove the roof totally.

            A flap to the rear of the car can generally hinder the removal of the casualty. Remember we always want to remove the casualty inline with their spine with minimal twisting. The best way is to work to the rear of the car. If the roof is flapped back to there, we can't remove them inline.

            With regards to the windscreen popping out- all the cars we've worked on so far have laminated front windscreens. They splinter alot so make sure you protect the casualty. I have never seen one actually pop out....
            Luke

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            • #7
              Windshield with the roof. We usually will sawzall all the way accross. Sometimes one A-post is cut with cutters and the other with sawzall and it continues accross the windshield.
              Stay Safe & Bring 'em Home!
              Eddie C.
              I.A.F.F. Local 3008

              "Doin' it for lives n' property"

              ** "The comments made here are this person's views and not that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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              • #8
                Windshield with the roof, Glassmster or 'cip saw.

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                • #9
                  A word of caution when removing the windshield and the roof all as one unit. I'm talking specifically about the evolution where the crew cuts all roof posts and cuts across the bottom of the windshield. The plan is to remove the entire roof and windshield as one unit.

                  The safety consideration is to not move a cut windshield OVER a patient(or inside medic for that matter). Have the crew lift the roof and walk forward. This passes only the roof itself over the passenger area of the vehicle. The glass always moves AWAY from the patient, not OVER them.

                  If you have no room to move forward with the roof, what do you do? Solution: pass the roof/windshield to one side or the other. This is more difficult but still, the glass stays away from those inside the vehicle.

                  Ron Moore
                  Forum Moderator
                  University of Extrication
                  Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
                  www.universityofextrication.com

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                  • #10
                    Flapping a roof forward using the base of the windshield as a "hinge" still sounds very unsafe to me. That's a big chunk of metal to pivot up four to six feet in the air while depending on the windshield to hold.

                    Total roof removal toward the front seems the safer alternative.
                    _________DILLIGAF

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                    • #11
                      quick note

                      Originally posted by Ten8_Ten19
                      Just a question...is it possible that the 'shield could come loose from it's bottom seal while you're flapping the roof forward and kick back into the passenger compartment?

                      I didn't know if I made it clear how we did it, so I'll just clarify. The windshield is weakened close to the dash (and A-posts are cut low, which i realize isn't always a smart thing to do) so that there isn't any big piece of glass trying to spring back into the compartment space.

                      The roof/glass is heavy and awkward, but with an average size crew, it's easy to manage. I used to think flapping with the windshield was a lot faster, but now I'm not as convinced. It only takes a few seconds to complete the cut through the windshield and completely remove everything. The Glasmaster or a 'cip saw will blow right through it in no time. Like Ron said, if you do it that way, then you can move to the side or the front with the assembly.
                      God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
                      Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
                      Click this to search FH Forums!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We normally don't remove the whole windshield, too time consuming.
                        With older cars it was more of a consideration because of it falling out of the gasket.

                        one cut along the bottom. I'm not to big a fan of flapping the roof.
                        if your gonna go through the trouble of flapping it you might as well just take the whole thing. When you think about it its the same amount of cuts.

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                        • #13
                          [QUOTE]From Ten8-Ten19. Haven't tried a forward flap with the 'shield in. Just a question...is it possible that the 'shield could come loose from it's bottom seal while you're flapping the roof forward and kick back into the passenger compartment?

                          We used to cut the A pillars, but now we crush the A pillar with the spreaders and use that as the hinge.
                          The other thing we do is to put a canvas sheet across the inside of the windscreen, push it between the dash and the windscreen, use the sun shades at the top to hold it up, and we use a piece of pvc pipe about 12 inches long and split along the length of it to hold the canvas to the A pillars. Once this is done there is no problem with glass fragments entering the passenger compartment.
                          Cutting the windscreen with a saw is fine, as long as all rescuers and the casualty are protected from the air borne particles of glass dust, which can be inhaled or settle on a casualties injuries, and also as long as you have a saw capable of doing the job.
                          We have practised the forward flap with the windscreen in place numerous times and have never had the windscreen come out or kick back, but that doesn't mean that it will never happen.
                          It has been said before, practise and use what works for your team and your equipment.
                          D. Camp

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                          • #14
                            Depending on the situation, we ussually leave the W/S in place. Cut the "A" post high, take the B,C and so on. Remove the roof and then if we have to, we cut the "A" low and just lay the W/S with "A"'s still attached over on the hood.

                            Moving the roof w/ the W/S adds a lot of weight to the roof assembly and with todays manpower and added on scene duties, we've found this to be the most effieicent and safiest operation.

                            Works very well and have not had any problems so far.
                            These views/ opinions are my own and not those of my employer/ department.

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