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Holmatro airbag covers, anyone???

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  • Holmatro airbag covers, anyone???

    Has anyone seen Holmatro's airbag cover, "Secunet" I think it is, in action? Not action like yeah we put one on, action like it was on and the airbag deployed? It's supposed to be kevlar/aramid but it feels really lightweight to be 100% kevlar. It also has buckles that aren't used on parachutes anymore because they can fail. It will certainly be safer than a non-covered wheel, but I was just curious...
    ...if you put the handline in the right spot, you won't have to jump out the window...
    -Andy "Nozzles", SQ18, 9-11-01

  • #2
    ALL vehicle and air bag manufacturers tell you to NEVER, that's NEVER put anything on top of an undeployed air bag. It doesn't matter what it's made of or how it's supposed to be secured it has to be installed by a human being during a stressful situation (read Murphy's Law).

    I've been teaching an air bag safety class since 1991 along with GM and we strongly, no make that STRONGLY suggest you use your money elsewhere.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    • #3
      I Second that motion Dragon!!!! The NHTSB (national highway transportation safety bureau) recommends, no STRONGLY recommends never in no way or fashion to retain a airbag. Also, there is a little windshield device being sold out there that has a "ice pick" like thing intended to puncture undeployed air bags, again another NO-NO. Ask around about a product before you buy.

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      • #4
        I have to agree with the other two replies, I haven't actually seen the video but I have been told about an air bag that was restrainred at a demonistration that actually pulled the steering wheel off of the column. I dont know about you but I think that would qualify foir the "OH @$^* factor". Just my two cents.

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        • #5
          I know it's probably all about the mighty dollar, but why would Holmatro, a powerhouse in the extrication field, make a product that isn't supposed to be used? Maybe it's the idealist in me coming out...
          ...if you put the handline in the right spot, you won't have to jump out the window...
          -Andy "Nozzles", SQ18, 9-11-01

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          • #6
            "I know it's probably all about the mighty dollar,"

            You said it all right there. They are not the first company to offer a product like that, the "Bag-Buster" was first. I guess that since they are a "leader" in the business they didn't want to be left out in the cold.

            Disconnect the batteries, stay away from yellow wires and you should be okay. Rememeber Dayton! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
            Steve Dragon
            FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
            Volunteers are never "off duty".
            http://www.bufd7.org

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            • #7
              Dragon-Slayer - With all do respect you are missing a few important facts. I sell Holmatro Tools, the secunet is just another tool to try to avoid injuries to fire fighters by undeployed air bags. There are several other design available and some of those have had problems. As far as I am aware, there have been no problems with the secunet when used in the field.

              You mention that cutting the battery and everthing is okay. This is absolutley positively the wrong information to give out. First of all, how many batteries are on the car in question. Can you even get to it? Lets say you can, the capaciter time on vehicles varies greatly. You mentioned GM - the capacitor time is 10 minutes !. BMW's manufactured in the early 1990's had a run down time of 30 minutes.

              Once this time has expired there is still a concern of unwanted bag deployment. You mentioned avoiding yellow wires , if possible, however not all cars built in the past with airbags used yellow wires.

              The most important thing to remember is to always treat airbags as live and be aware of there strike zones.

              As far as the post regarding the Rescuer's Guide Book, once again its a resource to use, it is vey easy to locate vehicles within the book and it costs @ $ 140.00. It could use a few improvements but its hard to critize the book when know other company or publishing firm has anything even remotely close to it available.

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              • #8
                I emailed J. Onder on this issue. He replied that the US DOT does not have an official opinion on Holmatro airbag covers but he was very skeptical about introducting any foreign object into the passenger compartment. This sounds logical to me but I do see where they may be better than nothing; if not able to disconnect power to the ECU i.e. Upside down vehicle, pancake or lean to. Also the covers must also be attached and used correctly or they are no help at all.

                <br />Rick Jorgenson

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                • #9
                  I attended an extrication comp in Halifax Nova Scotia where GM of Canada was kind enough to donate 3 brand new cars to use. One of those cars was a Buick (Park Avenue I think). We cut the roof off to use it for an airbag demostration. The Holmotro dealer there wanted to show how good their air bag securing device worked. So we put it on the steering wheel (I might add here that the steering wheel was completly in tact and not deformed in any manner). When the GM engineer set off the air bag, the top of the steering wheel ring (which holds the device) was ripped away and flew into the drivers seat. The device from holomtro did not fail, however, the force of the airbag being "contained" caused the steering wheel ring to fail and land in the patients lap....but not before it would have hit him in the face. I am a big advocate of not placing objects between the airbag and patient. We know how to be safe. Practice that and use the money to buy your rescuers something the really need.
                  Skip Rupert
                  Shrewsbury, PA
                  "Keeper of the Rescue Zone"
                  [email protected]

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                  • #10
                    One thing I forgot, I have the steering wheel and piece that came off the ring. If you would like a digital picture, email me and I can send you a copy.
                    Skip Rupert
                    Shrewsbury, PA
                    "Keeper of the Rescue Zone"
                    [email protected]

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                    • #11
                      Junkyard,As I have stated numerous times on this Forum,You got a capacitor?Tie the positive and negative battery cables together OFF the battery and that capacitor is dead.Do I know where all the batteries are?Well,since we do multiline car repair,and there's only so many places on a modern day rickshaw you can put a battery I'm pretty confident I can find the battery in a reasonable lenght of time.Put something over a bag?Not if I gotta work behind it.The only safe bag is a removed bag. T.C.

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                      • #12
                        With all due respect to Rescue 101, the draining of the capacitors by touching the ends of the cables is NOT a safe way to disable the air bags. By touching the ends of the cables together you will cause electrical current to move through the system. That can cause the bags to deploy in SOME situations. There have been air bag recalls due to deployment from as little as static electricity from your hands. I am not saying that covering an air bag is safe or not. Just work around the bag as best you can, get as much education about vehicle anatomy as you can, and DISCONNECT the battery cables. The best way to be safe around air bags is to train. Techniques change all the time, hopefully the powers that be in Detroit will help us out some day. Merry Christmas from B-company!!!

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                        • #13
                          Backtruck,if you had read further you would see I also said the only safe airbag is a removed airbag!We run a high end repair shop so braindead on bags I'm not.The oldest information I use to repair your car is 90 days old,is your Fire Company that up to date?Think of a airbag like a stick of explosive with a cap in it,safety procedures are similar.Leads off battery,there isn't enough juice left in an automotive system to do much of anything.Tieing the leads together will just keep any possibility of electrical current from going anywhere.My advise stands;to be respectful of bags but don't get so paranoid over them that you can't do the job you were sent to do.Everybody has an opinion and a procedure,do what works for you.Me,I'm gonna hook those leads together based on over twenty five years of vehicle repair.Yeah,I can still set the points on your 57 chevy,and replace your 2000's airbag.T.C. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

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                          • #14
                            I've seen two videos of these holmatro secunets being used.

                            The first showed the bag actually coming off the wheel when the bag deployed. (This was put down to the cover not being fitted correctly)

                            The second video was shown by Robert Walmsley from ICET and it showed the cover being used, and yes it did deform the wheel, but the bag was restrained....

                            I haven't seen it, but have heard that the bag buster causes more serious problems in that when it deploys, because the unit is so rigid in its design, there is no "give" or flex, and the shock of the deployment is transferred back into/through the car, which in turn rocked the vehicle like a bomb had gone off.....

                            From the other end of the discussion, do you think companies like Holmatro, etc., would develop and sell an item that was not safe to use? If a cover is not meant to be used, why would they or anyone else distribute a product that had the chance of landing them in court facing huge law suits because it did what is not menat to do?<br /> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
                            Luke

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                            • #15
                              I agree with just about everyone. Better to face the problem than cover it up. HAPPY NEW YEAR.

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