New Rescue Specs.

[AFDLT]

My Dept. is currently specing out a new rescue and I am on the truck committee. This truck will replace a Rescue/Pumper which we will probably keep as a back-up. The list of equipment and number of tasks different people want from this truck is never-ending. Aside from the basics (hydraulic tools, lighting, air, cribbing, etc.) we have talked about everything from walk-ins to walk-arounds, a cascade system, water, maybe a compressed air foam system, a small crane... the list goes on. Obviously we can't have it all (not that we don't want it) . This truck will be first due to MVA's (by far most of our rescue work), HAZMAT, water and ice rescue, all technical rescues, and provide support at fires.

Given these jobs, what would you build and what would you put on it? Let's say money is no object, but keep it limitted to two axles.

[Resq14]

I'd go with a non-walkin box, but with a extended cab chassis that could allow for a command area if so desired, or extra seating, or extra storage. You could use it as a rehab area, as well as an area to don ice rescue suits. I think you'll appreciate more compartmentation over the ability to have a narrow place to sit as in the typical walk-in.

Coffin compartments up top for less frequently used items. Big generator 30kW minimum, I'll recommend a Harrison hydraulic unit run off a PTO. Amkus Ultimate PTO HRT system. At least 1 worthy light tower, along with decent box-mounted recessed lights. Also, some preconnected tripod lights are useful too. I like the FOCUS lightheads, and get the higher wattage ones. You'll be happier.

Cord reels for electrical, air (utility), HRT reels, SABA air reels if needed.

I was a fan of roll-up doors, but I think the versatililty of standard rescue-style doors is better. You can mount things on them, less likely to jam, no roll-up mechanism to eat up space at the top of compartments, etc.

Roll-out, tilt-down shelving. When you buy your truck, send all your equipment to the manufacturer so it can be custom installed professionally.

Carry more cribbing than you think you need, and if you don't already have them, stabilization struts.

A portable winch can be used off all sides of your truck if you spec hitches and 12V to each side.

I don't think you can get a crane without going to tandem axles. Maybe...

Store ladders and long tools beneath the staircase steps that lead to the top of the truck. I'd go with the staircase and not a pool-ladder or steps. The coffin compartments up top add a great deal of storage space.

By CAF system, I think you mean one of the Ansul-type tank and reel setups. We used to have one on our squad. It was only used twice... both for training. It's good to have if you ever need it, but we never needed it. Plus it's a pain to refill. If you mean a full-blown CAF system (air compressor and water pump), then I'd recommend that. We have one on our rescue-pumper and it's great.

The truck we recently purchased is a 2000 E-One Cyclone II chassis with seating for 8, 2000gpm/750gal Hale QMax pump, Pneumax CAF system with 200cfm air compressor, 15kW Harrison hydraulic generator, and an Amkus Ultimate System. Saulsbury did all the body work. We have one of our HRT reels and tool preconnected in front bumoer, receiver hitches all over the truck for winch and anchor points, ladder storage under the hosebed, 4 coffin compartments, recessed, extendable, and tripod FOCUS lights, 200' electrical reels, and 200' utility air reel. We have hosebeds for 1300' of 5", 400' of 2.5", and 600' of 1 3/4" (mostly preconnects). A remote control deck gun and On-Spot tire chains round out the truck.

One nice thing about this truck was that I/we spec'ed it so that all compartments were a full 28" deep floor to ceiling. There aren't any cut-outs or intrustions. Sacrifices that were made to accomplish this include a rather high rear hosebed, and high ladder storage. However, we have just as much (if not more) storage room than most of the rescues around here.

Things I wish we had: trash line also in the front bumper, I'd take a true 1.5" over a booster. We didn't get a light tower either, which I would highly recommend. We did get a lot of scene lights, but I think the ability to focus a ton of light on your scene is helpful. If it comes down to one or the other though, get the box-mounted lights. I also would've placed the rear preconnects in a rear-bumper compartment so they were low to the ground. The mid-ship preconnects are at a very reasonable height. I'd also would've sent all of our equipment down to Saulsbury to be installed. It's no fun to have the truck sit in your station for months to try and get things installed. It's a great truck though. We saw one down there that you might be interested in... very cool truck. Fitchburg, WI's heavy rescue.
http://www.fitchburgfire.com/apparatus/fis1.htm

Both Fitchburg and Saulsbury did a terrific job. It was an impressive sight to behold!

[RES14CUE]

My stattion has a Saulsbury walk in on a Seagrave chassis. Contrary to waht the previos post said, there is ample room to sit in the back. we seat six with our scott bottles mounted between each crew seat. there are shelves with belts covering to protect the crew from flying objects. When you get off, the only compartments you would have to open on a typical wreck would be the one with the Amkus tools and the ones with cribbing. All other tools are in the back (sawz-all, windshield kit, axes, irons, poles). our ladders and some long pike poles are under the bench seat. We have both a front and rear winch, and even one that can go on the side. We have a cascade and a generator driven by the Amkus system. We run over 2,000 calls a year with this and our other squad(which is very similar only ten years older). If you are interested in seeing it, go to BHVFD14.com and if you really want some ideas you can always come see it in person. We do allow ride alongs too.

[Resq14]

RES14CUE,

What advantage(s) does a walk-in box that seats 6 people have over an extended and raised cab that seats 8 or 10? (honest question here)

I'm just curious what the operational benefits are. I know a lot of places use them, but I'm not really sure why. Command post? I know riding sideways in the back is fun, but it just seems like you can accomplish the same thing, plus gain storage space with a larger cab.

(and I should've mentionned your truck also... it's yet another great Saulsbury creation!)

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: A. Ridge ]

[pwc606]

Custom chassis with an 18 to 22 foot box. I am a walkaround fan due to the increased amount of space for the box. Six bottle cascade piggy backing four together for that last little bit you may need. Plus you can always run your air reels off of them as well. Double fill station. They now take up a lot of space due to the NFPA spec. Roll out tilt down everything. Man does that make a big differance. Slide out tool boards for the hand tools. Top side coffen compartments. If you really want the true side compartment size and feel you can take six to ten inches off the coffens then do that. It gives you more room over head for the roll up doors if that is your style. Rollout trays for the hydraulic tools all mounted on the bottom self. None on the walls. The less back breaking the better. Heavy timber in a rear loading low to medium highth compartment with the ladders and pike poles. The cascade system can be worked around this design or vice versa. Warrenton Rescue put a stair case on their new HDR with a compartment under the stairs. The entire staircase lifts up on gas shocks like the hood of a car. The only disavantage to this style is the amount of compartment space that is lost in the rear of the vehicle. You will not be able to have the rear of the Rescue one large compartment.
PTO generator with lots of lights. Light tower by WilBurt, and 750's on all sides. If you have any overpasses in your area you will not be able to raise a light tower under them if they are low. Quartz lights will do the job. Get a couple mounted on tripods and a brow light for when you are pulling up on the scene. A large winch mounted in the bumper and one that is portable as well. Air reels and electric reels. I would go with two of each. If you are CSR capable I would get three air reels one low pressure. Four hydraulic reels all preconnected. Add a block to the system at each reel and you can run....let me do some math??? sixteen I think. 4x4= yeh 16. I would make sure that when the specs are done that there are at least two electrical plugs on each side of the vehicle. I would keep all my gas materials, if possible, in one compartment. Cribbing? Get a freakin lumber truck full. You can never have enough. Pack it in there like you are stocking up for the winter. Chassis? I am a Pierce man. Lance, Dash, or Enforcer. They all are able to have the big block motors mounted in them. The Lance is freaking huge. You can get them in limosine, stretch limo or super stretch limo. I love them. Anywhere from four to I think ten to twelve man cabs. Get one with a lot of space in the back for the crew. Also make an EMS compartment. Yuck I said EMS, twice. I am a firm believer in the interior cabnet for that gear. It will stay cleaner and last longer. Plus you have a place to store the gas meters, Thermo Spy and TIC. Hand lights and hand tools I would try to stay away from mounting in the cab. I am almost certain that the NFPA spec says they must be mounted with like 5g bracketts in the cab. Tools flying around in a roll over, heaven forbid, is something you doun't need. I would put the largest motor that money can safely buy. The larger the motor, the larger the transmission and the larger the price. It is nice to have something that will carry all the weight though.

Hope this helps you.
Matt

[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: pwc606 ]

[RES14CUE]

To answer your questions, there are a number of advantages. First we don't lose any storage space. We may not have compartments tat go all the way through, but what good are tools buried four feet deep in a compartment if you can't get to them. We store many items in the box including air bags, ropes, water rescue eqipment, power tools, extinguishers, ladders. we don't have the disadvantage of having to climb on the roof for any tools, all of them are either in the box or in a lower compartment. And believe me, we have the same tools as other squads and in most cases more. Second, why do you need 10 people on a squad? our 8 is more than enough. With ten the officer is going to have a difficult time monitoring those extras. If I am not mistaken, Fire Officer 1 teaches 5-7 being optimal for number being supervised. In my opinion 10 people is overkill. Also, As Ron said in another post, the extrication time with more than five is no better than with four. I believe the walk in box allows for easier access to tools since most everything you need is right there. You grab it on you way out the door. If we run a accident, we get our assignments from the senior firefighter, and on the way out we can grab, sawz all, windshield kit, and most anything else.

The lack of a crew cab also makes it a lot shorter than many squads, and this is very important in a suburban area like ours where the streets can be very narrow. We spent a long time doing specs for the unit, and all avialable space is used.

[BVFD1983]

I am a Pierce man. Lance, Dash, or Enforcer. They all are able to have the big block motors mounted in them.

Me too! You are wrong, though. You cannot get a big motor with an Enforcer.

[MetalMedic]

Seeing that you are in New York, contact R.D. Murray and ask to see the specs on the Orrville (OH) Rescue/Pumper. The only thing I would change would be to put the hydraulic tools on the passenger side so that they face the crash scene when you use the apparatus to protect the scene.

[Resq14]

(check out the first post date MM - he might already have that new truck!)

[mradice]

Take a trip to New Jersey. Rescue One/Plcustom. They built our rescue wich was featured at FDIC in Indy last year. So far one of the best companies we have worked with, very professional and helpful.

[MetalMedic]

(check out the first post date MM - he might already have that new truck!)

Oh crap.... I need to get more sleep!!!

[hrtrescue10]

I am not going to tell you what to put on the truck, seems like there is enough of that going on.
But............. For some good ideas and lots of experience, you can contact Captain Homer Roberson, Fort Worth Fire Department, Fort Worth,Tx.
His latest creation was on the floor at FDIC this year. He has built several for his VFD, Granbury,Tx, also.
He is at the Bolt Street Station, Mon-Fri, 8A-5P.

I can email photos.

[Bones42]

Hello, this was a thread from 2001! I hope they are not still looking for specs.

BVFD1983 must be a super Pierce fan to drag up this old of a thread and tell everyone how much they like Pierce's.

[BVFD1983]

I was just browsing around and saw that someone said you can get a big block motor in the Enforcer...

[IronsMan53]

I was just browsing around and saw that someone said you can get a big block motor in the Enforcer...

Thank you Mr. I'm going to correct someone from FOUR YEARS AGO!!!

Give it up man. I'm going to start taking bets on the next older than dirt post that you uselessly dig up.

My money is on a post that has something REMOTELY to do with a Pierce product or somebody else's product that he wants spread his "Pierce is better" feces all over. Any takers???