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sawzall on door pin?

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  • Jim Greene
    replied
    A spreading tool is a good tool , but a saw zall is also a good tool . To expose the nadar , a high lift jack to do a vertical crush on the door works very well. <br />A team that has practice this can do so in a timely manner.<br />Both are good ways to take a door. It depends which one you are trained on. I have found both to be the same amount of time. It just depends on the severity of the damage to the door & how you want to take it.

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  • Chief 62
    replied
    WE have the Hurst Maveric tool,and the O cutters, on our rescue along with 2 sawz-alls [blade breaks, change the saw]and the only thing I have found that the saw would not cut was the drivers seat mounting brackets on a charter bus [Penn State Bus accident] On tractor Trailer accidents the saws seem to work better than the hydrolic tools

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  • FM61
    replied
    In refernce to fuel lines in the posts, Jaguar is using them now and they don't have markings on them. Also watch out for air bag fuel cells and seat belt pre-tentioners in the posts. Before cutting you need to strip the trim off the inside of the posts to make sure you don't cut through one of these.

    I have used the sawzall on a nader pin once when the jaws went down and found it cut through quite quickly. The only thing is that you need someone to spray a soap/water solution to lube the blades and help disperse the heat and you need to use a axe and halligan to gain acsess to the naderpin. It may be faster to cut the metal that holds the pin to the door. Try it.

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  • 911WACKER
    replied
    For those who argue the matter of space for the saw, all you need to do is "bar the door", simply take the good old haligon and make a opening in the sheet metal. This takes roughly 30 seconds to do, even if you have the door skin and pillar overlap, still pretty easy.

    If a door is jammed after the pin is cut, a bar and couple of guys can usually hyper-extend the door in short order, or use a high lift jack, bar and come-along, porta-power etc.

    Most company's only play, practice w/ power tools, next time you get a few cars to play with try all the standard operations using only hand tools, you may be surprised with practice most of these methods can be just as fast. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

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  • 911WACKER
    replied
    For those who argue the matter of space for the saw, all you need to do is "bar the door", simply take the good old haligon and make a opening in the sheet metal. This takes roughly 30 seconds to do, even if you have the door skin and pillar overlap, still pretty easy.

    If a door is jammed after the pin is cut, a bar and couple of guys can usually hyper-extend the door in short order, or use a high lift jack, bar and come-along, porta-power etc.

    Most company's only play, practice w/ power tools, next time you get a few cars to play with try all the standard operations using only hand tools, you may be surprised with practice most of these methods can be just as fast. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

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  • BF443
    replied
    I assume your scenario refers to forcing a door. My experience using spreaders I always have a air chisel as a backup. If the door starts to tear or break at a weld seam while still attached to the pin we placed the blade (flat) on the pin and the vibration alone usually dislodges the door from the pin. If it does not we just quickly cut around the support and take it out. I have never tried a sawzal for cutting the pin. If the space is present I see no reason why it can't be considered for use I would think you would want a new blade and soapy water to go with it. I will try it on my next extrication practice. Thanks for the insight.

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  • Dan Wood
    replied
    We only recently began "experimenting" with using a cip-saw on our rescue engine. We trained with it recently and found it worked ok, but still feel far more comfortable with our Hurst tool. For use on general vehicle areas, the plastic interior panels on most vehicles seem to present an interesting challenge. General panel movement seemed to cause some blade-binding issues for us. We were also concerned with significant amounts of flying plastic pieces. We discussed using the saw on Nader pins and, like several others, seemed to feel that access to the pin would be difficult. Shortening the blade has been discussed, but not tried. We are using the saw as a backup to our Hurst tool and have it staged accordingly on our apparatus.

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  • xe1rcf
    replied
    Here in Mexico City we were severely critized by other squads when we first used cip saws in nader pins, roofs, doors, etc.
    However we were able to demonstrate it was not only much faster but cheaper (and believe me, budget counts here).
    Today other rescues are starting to consider saws as primary extrication tools as we do.
    I think the hurst dealer just wanted to deny the fact that saws are winning the rescue market race against jaws type tools. Doing the same for less.
    Take care.
    Fernando
    BRIASA 32010 Special rescue unit

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  • eyecue
    replied
    Honda,Lexus and Audi are the ones that were mentioned for these issues. BTW I answered RON and havent heard anything back yet.

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  • Aaron Meland
    replied
    I think that a spreader remains the best way to open a door. They seem to be highly effective at removing the pin. If you decide to use a sawzall and can't get adequate access to the pin, you just wasted all that time when the door could have been opened much sooner by the spreaders. As for the hydraulic cutters. If you look at the "owners manual" I think you will find that they are not intended for use on hardened steel. Cutting through nader pins will probably wreck them in a big hurry

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  • Carl Avery
    replied
    Thanks Ron for Looking into that post, I cannot wait to hear your reply, When I read it BELLS and WHILSTLES started going off! How many years has it been that we have Heard the URBAN RUMOR of gas lines in the roof, Damn it must be almost 20 years now that has been circulating and it still shows up in classes.

    Oh another note I see you have embraced my idea of Strip before you rip, I have posted that for some time now and feel with the complication of new air bag placement this is a must do

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  • Rescue 101
    replied
    I'll be watching this thread.I don't doubt they'll try to run fuel lines in the rocker panel area but I doubt you will see it in the pillars.Also for what it's worth fuel pressures non return systems are creeping toward 75-80 PSI and Coolant pressures are headed toward 30 Psi.Let's stay safe out there.T.C.

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  • rmoore
    replied
    This is a copy of the text message I sent directly to 'Eyecue' after I read his posting. I'll make any reply and any follow-up information available in the Forum when received.

    Ron Moore wrote to Eyecue;

    "Did you attend a HURST class in Pennsylvania presented by a factory representative?

    Who was the instructor for the program that gave you the info on the A- and C-pillars?

    Who gave you the info on the "unbreakable" glass?

    --

    [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: rmoore ]

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  • jsdobson
    replied
    Eyecue,

    From the class you just took, did the instructors say which makes and models were putting the fuel lines through the a and c posts (pillars) ? How about the makes and models of the unbreakable glass you mentioned ?

    Thank you,

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  • eyecue
    replied
    I just finished HURSTS latest classes and the saws all will be a no no shortly. The automakers are putting the fuel lines in the a and c posts. If you fracture one in a crash and take out a saw it could ignite. The newest techniques are to cut just about everything. Use the spreaders to open the purchase point on the door that you want to force. This is done with a verticle spread ..not a pinch. Then Pinch right above the front tire to collapse the compartment body beam. Now you go to the cutters. You cut the nader pin. It doesnt go anywhere because it is inside the door and there is a cover on the latch. Open the door and cut the hinges on the door. The door is gone. IF you have to do a dash roll the you just need to cut a space out of the kick panel and the a post. The new glass that they are going to start using WILL NOT BREAK AT ALL. With those last cuts then you go to a ram or spreader and get in the hole that you cut in the kick panel and lift away. If you are using a cutter and the tool starts to twist and the blades spread then you need to get the item being cut closer to the fulcrum of the tool. The tool needs to be checked for loose blades also. The newer cutting tool blades wont balk at a nader pin at all. HAPPY CUTTING.

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