Genisis Rescue Tools- Good or Bad?

[fire104capt]

Our Dept. has just purchased a new set of Genesis rescue tools to be put in service soon.We had each of the major rescue tool manufacturers at our station and tested each. While all were very good, our dept. felt the Genesis tools were the best. At the bid openings the dealer that represented these tools was the lowest bid.My question is this: has anyone out there used these tools in your dept. and are they any good or not. I would appreciate any true life experiences you may have had with this brand.

[HOTDOG]

We have had our Genesis tools for some time now and love them. They are light weight, fast, and we really love the nontoxic fluid. We haven't had any problems to speak of.

Hope you have the same success with them that we have had! Good luck!

[MetalMedic]

I have worked with the Genisis tools and have had no problems with them. If you do some checking, you will notice that they resemble the Weber tools made in Europe. It is my understanding that the Genisis is made by Weber in Europe and re-labeled in the United States. That doesn't affect the tools, it is just something you might want to look into for your own information.

Genesis has some great sales people here in Ohio. I have not had a chance to attend one, but I am told that the advanced extrication schools they put on are outstanding.

All tools will do the job that they are designed for as long as the operator is competent and the tools are properly maintained. Practice with them and take care of them and I am sure you will be pleased with them.

[ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: MetalMedic ]

[lutan1]

Genesis, Wagner? Who? Never heard of either of these!

Not saying they're good or bad, but I know our service in Australia, just like the others over here that perform auto extrication tend to stick with brand names that are known to everyone, have a trusted name and have the back up. (Those that stick out are Holmatro, Hurst, Lukas. Only recently, Amkus made its way over here, but I don't know how they're fairing on the market.)

Maybe I'm a bit conservative, but I'd stick with what I know unless I knew the full background of the new equipment. I'd hate to find out that you can't get parts or service or training when you most need it....

[pammoore]

Here is a thought, how long have they been around the states where is the service comming from and who is doing itAre they high pressue or low pressue (I don't know wich they are can't say I ever heard of them ) We had all low pressure 5,500 psi for years than switch to high pressure low flow stuff. It did not take us long to switch back to low pressure high fluid flow pump and tools. We have found if they company is low low price they have left something out. Pay now or pay later.To us long term service life is the key to making the up the money. Spen a little more time before you give them the go ahead and look at some other dept's that use each tool.

[CHIEF103]

We have been using genisis tools for over 4 years now and we love them. We had the company come in and do a demo at our department and we made the decision to switch from hurst and made the company leave the demo set. We now have three sets. we have had no problem and we use ours alot. We get good support from Howellco and have a couple of members who have been trained to service our tools.

[fire104capt]

Thanks everyone for your input.The founder of Lukus tools also founded Genesis. These tools no doubt will do the job for our dept.Just wanted a little info on them from others who had used them. Thanks again all.

[heatseeker]

Genesis Tools are manufactured in Europe by Weber. To my knowledge they operate at 9100 psi in europe, but 10,500 psi here. I also doubt they are NFPA 1936 compliant. If they claim this, find out who did the tests. The tools operate well but I would question there durability.

[pammoore]

Here is another strike against buying them, someone lied to you about the Lukas guys founding the company. Lukas did not found them and if you were listing to what is going on you would know that comming soon there will be no more Lukas USA company. Hale or who ever owns them have fired everyone there and shut down Lukas in the US.Genisis so I have heard is pieced together from other companys that they get there part's.

[extricationresearch]

WEBER-HYDRAULIK is the one's that build the tool. Weber

The tools are sold under the name American Rescue Technology in the USA. The brand name is GENESIS SERIES. The tools Operating Pressure is: 10,500 lbs.

[MetalMedic]

Originally posted by Extrication Research:
<STRONG>WEBER-HYDRAULIK is the one's that build the tool. Weber

The tools are sold under the name American Rescue Technology in the USA. The brand name is GENESIS SERIES. The tools Operating Pressure is: 10,500 lbs.</STRONG>

Weber.. that's the name I can never remember!!! I have also been told that the deal with the Genesis is that American Rescue Technology purchased literally a boat load of Weber tools and re-labeled them as Genesis. Allegedly, when they need a part to repair a tool, they take one of the original shipments apart and use that part to fix the tool. The "rumor" is that once these parts are gone, Weber will not supply any more to American Rescue Technology... Now, this is RUMOR, and I have no way to verify it... but if you are considering this tool, you might want to aske a few pointed questions since you would home to keep them in service for many years to come.

[JosephSimon]

METALMEDIC: American Rescue Technology (ART) shares a cooperative partnership with Weber Hydraulics in Germany, just as Hurst shares a cooperative partnership with Lukas in Germany. Some of the Genesis products are produced by Weber for ART the same as some of the Hurst products are produced by Lukas for Hurst.

LUTAN: Amkus has made its way to Australia 15 years ago. "you should get out more often".
Futher, we service all brands of rescue tools and I have ordered parts from "those that stick out" and have taken more than four months to receive.

JAS: No one brand of rescue tool is consistantly higher in price than others. Many things influence price (dealers,bid specs,area,the desire to get the business, etc. )The purpose of bidding is to obtain the product at the most competitive price. Low bid does not mean "buy now and pay later".
It is easily apparent that the quality of the product exists by the value added features such as third party testing and approval, meeting standards such as NFPA,EN,DIN,the French Rescue Tool Standards of which Genesis Rescue tools meet all of the above.

Heatseeker: 9,200 psi is a requirement of the DIN rescue tool standard in Germany. This is what requires the tools to operate at 9,200 psi. It is not that the tools are designed to operate at 9,200 psi. Lukas manufactures pumps for hurst which operate at a maximum of 5000 psi. This does not mean that those same pumps are not designed operate at 10,000 psi.
Lukas offers those same pumps operating at the higher pressure. Further you should not doubt that the Geneis Rescue Tools meet the NFPA standard, they do, and they are advertised as such.

JAS: IDEX who owns Hurst and Lukas has made a simple decision to market the Lukas product through Hale under a new label " Centaur"
No Lukas employees work for Hale and therefore were not fired. Lukas is an excellent product and will continue to be supported by hale. Every rescue tool company relies on other companies to produce various parts for the tools, blades, tips, pumps, hose, etc. If this is your interpretation of "pieced together" then you should consider all rescue tools are pieced together.

EXTRICATION RESEARCH: Weber is a parner of ART just as Lukas is a partner of Hurst. You will find that it is not uncommon for other rescue tool companies to produce certain items for other rescue tool companies. You should do more research!

METALMEDIC: There is no truth to any part of your reply.

In conclusion, one person simply requested if others could help him become more familiar with Genesis brand rescue tools. I think he had hoped some with direct experience would respond. Some did, however others who admittingly knew nothing about these rescue tools felt the urge to respond with misinformation. These forums are designed for an exchange of helpful accurate information,that may be of genuine help to others, this is not the place to further unfounded rumors.

[fireman_387]

Genesis "claim" to a NFPA is per the European test not UL. Departments buy equipment that is tested to UL or other USA recognized testing agencies as genuinely meeting up to a tested standard, not on what Europe does.

[heatseeker]

Joe

You seem to know the product very well.
What is the safety factor on the Genesis Tools? Who completed the NFPA 1936 testing on the tools?

If it was done using the DIN standard
( which by the way is a quality assurance standard, not a preformance standard ) what operating pressure were the tools tested?

I think its interesting that no other European rescue tool manufacturer tests to the DIN standard.

I truly question Genesis claim to NFPA 1936 compliance since ART is not the manufacturer. All of the information i have read in the standard is based on the manufacturer, not a private labeling company or "partner".

One final point, I don't understand how you can possible make repairs to other tools. Can you buy original parts and are you factory trained by these manufacturers?

[extricationresearch]

Originally posted by JosephSimon:
<STRONG>METALMEDIC: American Rescue Technology (ART) shares a cooperative partnership with Weber Hydraulics in Germany, just as Hurst shares a cooperative partnership with Lukas in Germany. Some of the Genesis products are produced by Weber for ART the same as some of the Hurst products are produced by Lukas for Hurst.

LUTAN: Amkus has made its way to Australia 15 years ago. "you should get out more often".
Futher, we service all brands of rescue tools and I have ordered parts from "those that stick out" and have taken more than four months to receive.

JAS: No one brand of rescue tool is consistantly higher in price than others. Many things influence price (dealers,bid specs,area,the desire to get the business, etc. )The purpose of bidding is to obtain the product at the most competitive price. Low bid does not mean "buy now and pay later".
It is easily apparent that the quality of the product exists by the value added features such as third party testing and approval, meeting standards such as NFPA,EN,DIN,the French Rescue Tool Standards of which Genesis Rescue tools meet all of the above.

Heatseeker: 9,200 psi is a requirement of the DIN rescue tool standard in Germany. This is what requires the tools to operate at 9,200 psi. It is not that the tools are designed to operate at 9,200 psi. Lukas manufactures pumps for hurst which operate at a maximum of 5000 psi. This does not mean that those same pumps are not designed operate at 10,000 psi.
Lukas offers those same pumps operating at the higher pressure. Further you should not doubt that the Geneis Rescue Tools meet the NFPA standard, they do, and they are advertised as such.

JAS: IDEX who owns Hurst and Lukas has made a simple decision to market the Lukas product through Hale under a new label " Centaur"
No Lukas employees work for Hale and therefore were not fired. Lukas is an excellent product and will continue to be supported by hale. Every rescue tool company relies on other companies to produce various parts for the tools, blades, tips, pumps, hose, etc. If this is your interpretation of "pieced together" then you should consider all rescue tools are pieced together.

EXTRICATION RESEARCH: Weber is a parner of ART just as Lukas is a partner of Hurst. You will find that it is not uncommon for other rescue tool companies to produce certain items for other rescue tool companies. You should do more research!

METALMEDIC: There is no truth to any part of your reply.

In conclusion, one person simply requested if others could help him become more familiar with Genesis brand rescue tools. I think he had hoped some with direct experience would respond. Some did, however others who admittingly knew nothing about these rescue tools felt the urge to respond with misinformation. These forums are designed for an exchange of helpful accurate information,that may be of genuine help to others, this is not the place to further unfounded rumors.</STRONG>

I do not know what you want me to research, Weber makes the tools, your company, Todd and the guys, and a few others sells them! What is to research? All I had said was the tool is built by WEBER and they run @ 10,500psi, is this not a true statement?


EQUIPMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY
Phone: 815-726-0045 Fax: 815-726-0056

Joseph Simon
(President)
Phone: (800)487-7567
Fax: (815)726-0056
e-mail: [email protected]

American Rescue Technology Dealer List...

Equipment Management Company
1323 N. Raynor Ave.
Joliet, IL 60435
800-487-7567
815-726-0056 (Fax)





[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Extrication Research ]