Chrysler and Magnesium (Attn. R. Moore)

[fftrainer]

This one's really aimed at Mr. Moore, but any resident expert will be helpful.

In reading a post in the Firefighter's Forum called "Strange Sparks at a car fire" regarding a 'fireworks' display that was produced when applying water to a section of the vehicle on fire. It seems the common opinion is that in some place in the burning vehicle there was magnesium, which based on description I would have to agree with. The original poster stated he believed the vehicle was a Chrysler product.

For safety reasons, the question I think we need answered here is are there any Chrysler products out there that contain magnesium? If so, which models so we can be better prepared for future jobs.

I realize this is a fire related question but heck, what better place to find a bunch of auto construction experts than the "University of Extrication" forum? Please refer back to the post in question in the Firefighter's forum for a little more info!

Any ideas?

[RSQLT43]

I know that G.M. is using magnesium in the frames of the seats in mini vans, they also may use it in the seats of other vehicles, so I would not be surprised if all of the auto manufacturers were not using it somewhere.

Just be aware that if you apply water to a vehicle, and it produces a nice light show, then it is probably magnesium.

[Carl Avery]

I second RSQLT 43's Post. You most likely can find varrying amounts of this material in virtually any NEW Car, Remember this is a common material in Sports Cars such as Porsche's. With todays quest for Strong Light weight materials to improve fuel efficiency I would expect to able to see it any and every where along with all sorts of other materials from Titanium to Carbon Fiber and almost anything you can dream of

[rmoore]

I'll check into this regarding Chrysler...I mean Daimler-Chrysler.

I have some good shots of a GM full-size van crash. Underneath the dashboard was a huge chunk of formed magensium making up the entire dashboard structure and support for the steering column. It ran from A-pillar to A-pillar. It broke apart like peanut brittle into big pieces.

During a recent burn of a 2001 Honda vehicle, there was evidence of small amounts of magnesium burning at various times throughout the fire. Nice miniature fireworks display!

I've seen the VW fires with magnesium engine components and the sports car fires with mag wheels.

I agree that the arcs and sparks tend to startle firefighters when it happens. Rather than try to memorize which vehicles have magnesium and exactly where it might be, I train my Plano firefighters that things like this is why full PPE, SCBA, 1-3/4" handlines and attacking from an off-angle are mandatory.

Ron Moore
Forum Moderator

[Rescue101]

Well said and from an old bull,You CAN put out a magnesium fire in a car with water.However you need to remember what you're trying to do is COOL the magnesium below it's ign temp.Moderate flows starting from the outside and working toward the seat of the fire,Takes time but can be done.In a magnesium factory I'd find another way.T.C.

[N2DFire]

Having "witnessed" a magnesium engine block fire "Up Close & Personal Like" during overhaul of a House/Garage fire a few years back I can tell you it's not a site you soon forget. (I Think the Nozzelman's & My shadows are still on that wall )

As far as the question of what might have been burning in the afore mentioned car -

As muh ole pappy used tah say - "Iffin it walks like a duck N talks like a duck - it's probbably a duck".

Seriously though I had heard somewhere (probably here) that Larger Chevy Trucks & SUV's had a magnesium dash support similar to what Mr. Moore refered to in the GM products. In this day & age of using more plastics and lighter weight metal - I think we can expect to see this become a more common practice in the auto industry.

That why I agree 100% w/ the use of PPE & tactics Mr. Moore describes - because there is no such thing as a "Routine" car fire.

Take Care - Stay Safe
Stephen
FF/Paramedic