tools vs. sogs

[sledgehammer]

There have been more questions on which tool does everyone think is the best than I could ever try to count. The idea of the Texas Death Match was great! I think that it would be very informative, but if there is anything that this post has brought out to me is the human element.
Has anyone in here been on 2 wrecks that were identical? Differences in tool performance is very very important, but I think that finding the best way to attack the scene and pt. care outways tool performanc. Like we have found in this very forum...every sceene is going to be different, resquers are different, and tools are different. The only thing that we have that is remotely close to being the same is our standard operating guidlines.
If anyone dissagrees please let me know!!!

I still would die to see the texas death match.

[This message has been edited by sledgehammer (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Carl Avery]

I agree, procedures, tricks and technique can and do make more difference than the tools! Not to sound Like a cheerleader here, BUT... There is nothing Like checking out a EXTRICATION COMPETITION (www.TERC.org) to see that DEMONSTRATED. Organization, tool KNOWLEDGE, GOOD procedures and TEAM work mean more than the brand of tool the team uses!

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Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
Carl D. Avery

[dfwscotty]

I agree with the shootout and enjoy watching the tool companies put on the demo's at the various fire expos and shows. But I think that you could take 5 of the same cars and use the same tools and get 5 different outcomes. I can also take the same 5 cars and same tools with different users and again get 5 different outcomes. As long as you know how to get the best out of the tools, that is going to be the most efficient way to go. (as well as Pt. care)

[Hacksaw]

Carl,I think you hit the nail on the head.
The idea is to, yes, get the patient out of the car in the best shape in the least amount of time.
But lets do it the easy way!
Lets think about what are the usual MVA's.
Head on,tbone,rear end,oblique head on,roll over,have I missed any? Probably BUT.
Anything on the road is really a varietion of these configurations.
So now ,back at the station,we drill for these situations.
Whether your training for the road or competitions, if you get your skills down pat and your team work happening,it's a simple job!
So I don't think it's about tools it's about skills and teamwork!
Training hard makes working easy!

[firefighter26]

I agree at every extrictation is going to be different.
I have only been a volunteer firefighter for close to three years, and I have never ever seen the same accident twice (even at the same location). Many many times we have set up the same scenario and had different results. This is because some people handle the tools differently then others.
Recently, we entered an Auto. Ex. competition (I was on the team), just watching how some departments approached a scene was very interesting. I think that we can agree that most of the tools (Jaws and Saws) are all designed to do the same thing and operate the same way. I find, that the person using the tool, his or her experience and knowledge level, not to mention what type of basic person they are, have a huge impact on how things are done. For example, one member in my department uses a recip-saw in his full time job. He can use the saw and cut the A,B, and C posts of a vehicle faster then some of us can while using the cutters or combination tool (which is my preference).
I agree with sledgehammer in his statement that;
"The only thing that we have that is remotely close to being the same is our standard operating guidlines."
The tools are all basically the same, I assume all of our department's guidelines are very similar, so the two deciding factors are the people on the tools and the way the layout of the scene.

[mike m]

THE UNIVERSITY OF EXTRICATION WE SITE IS A GREAT FORUM FOR US TO EXCHANGE INFO AS WELL AS SHARING IDEAS ON EXTRICATION.I HAVE NOTICED THE STANDARDS OF CARE DOES DIFFER FROM REGION TO REGION BUT THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS STILL THE SAME.REMOVING THE VICTIM(S) AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AND IN THE SAFEST MANNER POSSIBLE.KNOWING WHAT TOOL(S) AND IN WHAT MANNER TO USE THEM AND KNOWING THERE LIMITATIONS IS VERY IMPORTANT IN THE INITIAL SIZE-UP.FOR PLACES THAT DONT SEE MANY MVAS,WILL HAVE TO RELY ON A GOOD TRAINING PROGRAM,AND MUST HAVE COMPETANT INSTUCTORS TO TEACH THE NEEDED SKILLS TO DO THE JOB.YES,NO TWO WRECKS ARE THE SAME,BUT WITH A GOOD SOP AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOOL(S)WILL MAKE THE JOB RUN RIGHT.

[Carl Avery]

Here I go Cheerleading again, but for all you in small departments that do not get to see a lot of wrecks (that describes my department)EXTRICATION Competitions Like the one recently held on Long Island or the One to be held in Connecticut or in Howard County Maryland or SEE (www.TERC.org)what your Local region offers. A wealth of Opportunities to see wrecks, Lotsa wreck and HOW different people handle them. A friend of mine from Mississaugua, Ontario, Paul Simpson sez "when I go to one of these events I try to come away with at least two things, Something new and better I want to try and something I did not Like and want to avoid" Point being go to one of these events where you can see anywhere form 10-40 different scenarios depending on the number of teams.
We all love the TOOLS, But what really counts is the way WE put them to work, Get see people who are willing to show off there tools, TALENTS and TECHNIQUES. TOOLS do not do the RESCUE, MEN and WOMEN do! How we put ourselves to work is the KEY to Succesful RESCUE

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Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
Carl D. Avery

[Carl Avery]

OK I know I have been touting the Comps, and I do believe they are a good source of networking and info. But I want to get this going a bit. What do you all consider your tool cadre, is it only a set of Hydrualic tools, Or do you include Cip saws, Air chisels, come-a-longs, High-lift Jacks, etc? If you have a tool crib like that do you have the procedures to go along with it?

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Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
Carl D. Avery

[sledgehammer]

On our dep. we have (Holmatro) two comb.tools
one ram, and pump to run two tools. We are getting a set of shears pretty soon. We also have a Dewalt saws all, and a good set of lift bags.
Most of our proc. are set for the hyd. tools. But we got the saw just in case.We do have proceedures for all of our tools.
We also keep a ton of cribbing. I dont think that anyone can keep too much cribbing.
I have heard that some dep. have gone to just using the saws for everything. I dont think that I would want to do that. I think that saws have their place in all extrications but having a set of jaws is important in my opinion.